After spending so much time talking about sleep, we thought it'd be fun to get our moms on the podcast and hear their perspectives! We dive into:

-How they handled sleep as parents

-If they faced any unwanted sleep advice when we were babies

-What their perspective was regarding how we handled sleep with our own children

-Their advice for talking to your own mom about your child's sleep situation

 

It was definitely a unique episode and one we enjoyed thoroughly! We hope you enjoy it too!

 

For more resources on handling caregivers and sleep, check out this blog post: Communication your child's sleep needs to caregivers

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Welcome back to the sleep talking moms podcast. And today we are really excited because we have a special episode planned for you guys. So this was really really fun to do. We got our moms involved in the conversation surrounding baby sleep, their experience of with it, their experiences grandparents with it, and just kind of what it's like to be a mom, and then be somebody is mom who is a mom.

So it's been, I don't know, it was really, really fun. Also very interesting to see how very alike they were despite raising us very differently.

Yeah. So if you guys have any experience with having the tough conversations with your moms about how you're choosing to schedule baby sleep, this might be a really, really good one for you guys. Yeah. So we hope you enjoy it and thanks to our moms for being willing to record with us and I know they were both a little nervous about it. But thank you moms for joining us. Thank you hope you guys enjoy.

Interview with Linda (Kayla's Mom)

I'm excited to introduce you all to Linda Kayla's mom. Linda, do you want to say hi to everyone? Hi everybody. Hi, Mom. Hi, Kayla. We're so glad that you're here and just that you're willing to just talk about sleep and your experiences as a mom and as a grandma and thank you for being with us. Well, thank you for asking me. I'm very happy to share Well, why don't you start by telling us how was Kayla as a sleeper.

I was fortunate enough to have very good sleepers. However, Kayla was a preemie and she was hospitalized. At two weeks old for asthma. And for whatever reason it always happened the middle of the night. Oh, we we have a lot of interruptions for the first couple years of her life until things got regulated a little better. And we got more answers, the older she got.

So I spent many times next to her crib, patting her back or rocking her or, you know, just making sure she was okay and trying to get her back to sleep. Yeah, I can imagine that that was probably very nerve wracking. Since you felt like they did happen. You know that those kind of episodes where she would have issues what happened at night. That that just was hard to handle.

Yeah, it was very scary often, but as far as like a nap, or Kayla has always required a great deal of sleep. And she gets that honestly. She's, you know, she's my kid that on a Friday night would be in bed. By 738 o'clock. Even in high school.

 

She didn't spend the night with very many friends because he couldn't hang on go stayed awake all night long. She required sleep and I was thankful for that much rather have it that way then my opposite. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah, that's very true. Well, let me ask you, Linda, did you feel like your situation how you handled sleep with with both of your girls, did you ever feel judged for the way that you handled sleep?

Or you know, did you ever get like, you know, any pushback from family members or your own mom about sleep or what was that experience? Like?

No, I didn't get any pushback. My mom was a licensed daycare person, pretty much all my life. And so I I followed her lead and when, when my girls were tired, a went to sleep.

When they woke up, they woke up. There were times that I would wake them up late in the afternoon, you know, get them up at a certain time so that they would go to sleep in the evening. They always had a set bed time. You know, between 730 and eight, they were in bed, but you know when they were new babies and when they were toddlers it was just kind of the routine that you know, like breakfast and then play a little and then naptime.

And then you know, get up and have a snack and get ready for lunch and wait for a little while and go down for nap or was never as structured as Kayla was. Or is I was more in tune to you know what the baby was telling me. And thankfully I didn't have trouble all you know, I didn't have trouble with them. Going down and sleeping. If I had I probably would have had a different approach. But they were always good sleepers.

 

And I was following my mom's bleed. So you know, I kind of didn't care what anybody else thought. I mean, that's kind of my personality is that, you know, okay, you had your turn. You. You need to quiet down now. Unless you're asked. Just, yeah. Zipit. Uh huh. Yes, yes.

And I think that is a really good quality to have as a mom, you know, it's one of those things if you don't have that quality naturally, when you become a mom, you kind of have to get you learn it, you know, you kind of get that thicker skin where you're like, I actually don't need anybody else's opinion.

I trust what I'm doing. You were the parent before and now it's it's my turn, you know? Yeah, I think that's a very good quality to have as a mom or to gain.

So let's fast forward a little bit because you you kind of alluded to this already, Linda but do you remember having an opinion about the way that Kayla handled sleep with with her own two boys what she had kids do remember having an opinion and how did you guys kind of approach you know, any difference in opinions there?

I really just took my lead from Kay and she was very structured the whole day revolved around the sleep schedule. You know if that's it, she was not flexible in altering that at all. Kayla's phase right now is Yeah, sounds about right. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. And I was more you know, if they were ready for a nap at 1230 Okay, if they were ready for a nap at one.

Okay, you know, it wasn't that set. But you know, it has worked beautifully for Kayla, you know, the boys are are great sleepers. One thing that I did have a lot of issue with was crying having the boys be in their bed and it's not time to get them up yet. Or if they're not quite ready to go down yet, but it's time so you're going and they would cry and I I just never ever let my girls cry for that long.

I would have gone in and you know, give them an A hug and sang them a song and rock them for a few minutes to settle them down. And but you know, again, that was how I was brought up so I just I struggled with that. It was very hard for me to stay out of the bedrooms when the when the boys were would cry.

 

Yeah. And you're definitely not alone. In that I hear that from a lot of grandparents, especially what I when I work with families and you know, maybe a grandparent watches them on a regular basis or you know maybe in some cases they live with the grandparents and and that there is there does seem to be just that that generational difference there and and I don't know if I'm sure part of it is the way that they handled sleep kind of like what you said that just wasn't how you did it.

I think in other ways, it just becomes harder when you are the parent right? So the grandparents a lot of times get the child when they're on their best behavior. They're excited to be with Grandma, you know, they get all the fun good stuff, and sometimes they get to skip out on the not so fun side. And so I think that makes it can make it harder to Does that make sense?

Yeah. One thing that you know, I'm an early childhood special education teacher. I've been doing this for 20 years. One thing that I think kind of reinforces my my need to not let them the boys cry is because we have so much of a push for social emotional development in the school systems right now and with my my three to five year olds who are developmentally little, it's it's like when siblings fight you know, and you stop being the referee as a parent and you just let them work it out. Well, you know, that's, that's not done in a classroom.

In a classroom. I would intervene. I would talk to each child. We we would, you know, apologize and, you know, shake hands or give a hug or whatever and, and we would work it out. And so, you know, if a child is sad, then you know you you're at that child's side immediately with a book or a teddy bear or, you know, come sit on my lap or you know, something like that.

And with the boys. It's hard to switch gears for me because it's so ingrained in my mind of what I have to do in my classroom. Compared to respecting my daughter's wishes, you know, and letting not that your social emotional needs are not getting met because they absolutely are.

Kayla is a fabulous mom. Ah, but she is she is i i could not be prouder guys, I'm gonna cry. There are times when I see her with the boys or when she sends me a video or whatever, then I want to cry because I'm just so proud of who she's become. But I still have that teacher pull. Yeah,

I'm glad you said that because I hadn't really thought about that. But I mean, it makes total sense. You know, because there is, there is a difference between if you're a teacher or a daycare, provider, you know, a caregiver of any kind. The way that you respond there isn't automatically the same as you know, a mom with her kids. 24/7 is going to respond.

So yeah, thank you for kind of explaining that that that makes total sense in my head. And hopefully that will help anyone else who's listening that may feel you know, like they're in a similar situation. I hope so.

Yeah. Let me let me ask you one more thing, Linda, if you could give any advice for new parents? What what would it be whether it's sleep or or otherwise related, what advice would you have? Give yourself some grace? Because Because infancy and the toddler stages go by in a blink of an eye and you feel at the time. We're so tired, and your house is a wreck and your hormonal and you feel fat that that is all consuming and it feels like that stage goes on for forever. It has. It is so brief.

And I would just say you know, give yourself some grace and above all, you know, find, find joy in that baby, every single day. Even if that baby has cried has had, you know breast milk diarrhea forever. You've changed outfits 20 times the child has not sleep been you just find the joy of wow, I'm here. I get to hold this baby. I get to rock this baby. I get to change this baby 20 times. Yay.

Because tomorrow will be different. They change so fast, so fast, but at the same time, speaking as you know, my five year old has been throwing tantrums today. They also changed so slowly it feels like do how was it both at the same time? I don't know.

 

Interview with Sherry (Carianna's mom)

Alright everyone and I have for you guys, Carrie Anna's mom, Sherry. Hi, Sherry.

Hi, Kayla.

Also, sometimes I may call her my second mom because it was basically what she was for the entire time that I lived here. So you hear either one of those names. It is Sherry. Alright, so you're gonna have to think back but not too far. We're still very young army here. Yeah, no, no. Do you have any or can you share your memories or experience with Carianna and how she slept as a young child, baby toddler age.

I have wonderful memories, because she was the kind of baby and I just remember this this morning. I had six weeks off from work when I had her. And she started sleeping through the night at week number five. So I got a whole week's worth of good sleep before I had to go back to my job. She was one of them to prep. Yes, you later down at 7pm and you woke her? It was it was perfect.

That's so funny because my mom was just saying that I was a sleeper as well. And then that's how Carianna and I continued throughout our entire childhood. into high school all is it any wonder that we have a podcast talking about sleep? Right? It was meant

for us? That's right. That's right. But you know you didn't ask me this question. But something that I thought of was I didn't really know people had sleep issues with their kids. But right before I had her, I found an article just kind of stumbled on one that talks about how babies have to learn to put themselves to sleep. And I really remembered that didn't ever have to put it into practice. But I tried to share that with some of my friends because I had some friends going through terrible sleeping situations.

Interesting. Okay, well that kind of brings me to my next question. Did you have a specific philosophy around sleep? I don't know. I don't I don't some of your life a lot of your life but like you were working. I do like I mean, I've known you forever. I've been alive forever. And you have so much more left to go so much. Did you have any specific philosophy around sleep or was there anything that you asked your caregiver to do in terms of Carianna and her napping and bedtime? Anything like that? That you remember?

You know, aside from that article, I had nothing and my caregiver had been a mother for a lot longer than me. So I just left her in her hands and figured she's probably going to do a lot better job than I am so no I really went into being a mother kind of blind as far as sleep goes.

Oh, wow. So calm.

I'm not sure I was calm but I had Mark to keep me calm. So

no, ah, and then did your mom or do you remember anybody giving you any like comments or anything about how you were handling sleep or really any part of parenting that you can remember I guess if Carianna was just sleeping then people probably didn't have anything to say they were probably just like, cool. You got to sleep.

You know, I remember my mom coming over to see me sometime during my six weeks. And of course Carianna was sleeping I was in the living room writing thank you notes. And she said, wow, everything just seems so peaceful here. I said well, the baby's sleeping the houses clean. I'm getting caught up on my work. Yeah, things are going great. I just kept thinking this. This gig is

really easy. Like where's the catch is there what's gonna happen? What's coming. Alright, so fast forward. Carianna is now a mom. Do you remember having an opinion on how she was handling sleep? Because I know her whole career kind of started from her hiring a sleep consultant when Ethan was four months old. Is that correct? Carianna so there when Yeah, when he was four, we didn't work with asleep consult then but I found a sleep consultants blog and read all the things and was like okay, we're sleep training. Let's do it. Okay, so I'm sure that you remember before sleep training and then after, but did you have an opinion on how she was handling sleep?

Well, it was funny because there was a lot of rigmarole that she was going through to try to get him to fall asleep. And I remember thinking that poor couple if they make it through mean, that scented lotion gave him to relax. And I mean, I could go on and on. But you know the swaddling and they were just trying everything. Out of desperation. So I didn't have that much of an opinion because I felt so bad for Thank you God, but that didn't happen to me

that's hilarious. Okay, so did so you didn't really aside from like, I feel bad that you guys are dealing with us. He didn't really have an opinion on her trying anything then because it was like you do what you got to do. For your marriage and for your child

and for your own sleep. Which was so important to me. Right. And I knew Derek was someone who had a hard time sleeping himself. So it's like between the two of them. They got to get a good night's sleep.

Yeah. And then in what ways did Carrie and I get you on board with her sleep philosophy? Like did you notice a change in how Ethan was sleeping and did that kind of just tell you? Okay, what they're doing is working or did you kind of have to be persuaded?

I did not. Have to be persuaded and I kept him five or four mornings a week. I kept Tim's from like, seven in the morning until lunchtime. So she kept me in the loop all the way because I had to be on board with it. You know, I had to carry on what she was doing at home. I had to do it my house as far as the way she had him going to bed and stuff. So yeah, I was on board with it. I wanted them to find a solution. And I wanted him to get a good night's sleep, a good day's sleep. You know, he was a little bitty baby. And it was just hard to hear. He was struggling so much with it. So I was on board for beginning.

That's so great. Like, not every family has that experience. And so when you say like, oh, I had to go with whatever she was doing for the sake of consistency. That's not how it works for everybody. And so yeah, yeah, both of you are so lucky to have each other kind of work together to make sure that what was best for Ethan was what was happening anymore.

I mean, who wouldn't want that for their grandchild? You know,

right? Yeah. And I she she also put up with a lot for me because when we did sleep train him at four months, we were so scared of going backwards. To you know, he was sleep training all the sudden he started sleeping 12 hours, which we weren't expecting or trying for but it just started doing it. We were so scared of going backwards that I gave her like I would write out an exact schedule for her followed these wake windows. Exactly. Do not put him down for a nap before after like kind of what your mom was saying Kayla I was pretty rigid and very clear in my instructions. And I'm sure she on one hand was like oh my gosh, this girl is crazy. But I just was like this is working and I do not want to miss it.

Yeah, yes. I was thankful to have those rigid instructions. Because I'm kind of i The book person. And if I don't have a book, I'm going to make up my own. And I really appreciated having it all written. down for me. In fact, I told her that I was always in a panic that I would lose those notes. And then what would I do? I mean, how would I take care of him if I didn't have that?

List? That's so funny. It just reminds me when I was having Imre, Nick was gone. He was deployed. And so it was just mother in law and my mom with me. I had a binder of how to take care of Ellis while I was in the hospital, and it was like wake up at this time then this is what you do. This is breakfast and then I would put like what he likes to eat for breakfast and it was like so bad, like, timed. And I just remember my mother in law was the one that was dealing with Ellis. She was like I'm so grateful that I had that I thought I was being annoying. But she was like, This is so great. I was just like, you can't mess up the schedule. You can't mess up the structure. If you do that. Then he's like gonna bring this at home and everything's gonna spin out of control. And so it's just really funny. You think you're being annoying, but here we have two moms that are saying no, give us the notes.

I'm not proud. I know I do not know at all.

That's a great trait to have. It really is. Do you have any advice for new parents when it comes? To speaking to their parents about the decisions that they're making for their children's children, whether it's sleep or potty training, any of those things that you have to do where you're kind of teaching your kid do you have any advice on how they can talk to their own parents? about their choices? Well, I'm

sure it varies from you know, parent to child, but I just had so much faith in Carianna and Derek, that they I mean, they're smart people, they research things they don't go off on crazy ideas. I just fully that what they were doing was the right thing. And I think letting us grandparents know what you're doing is the best thing you can do because as long as we were in the loop, and we were being educated, I never doubted it at all. I just felt really comfortable with it. I think I would have been more at my wit's end. If they hadn't been pursuing a way to to fix this. I would have been really frustrated and worried. And I've learned more through my friends than through my own personal experience, that if you can't work with your kids to help their kids, it's not going to work. If I'm not on board with her it's not going to work. She doesn't have to be on board with me. She's in charge of that child, not me. So I'm ready. It's really me that has to be on board.

And yeah, our moms are saying almost the exact same thing. It's really really sweet. So alright, so to kind of wrap up. First of all, how does beam a grandparent feel? How does it feel to watch your child raise children?

It's the best feeling and I am so proud of my child. And I'm so proud of Derek I could cry. I mean, are better parents than we ever dreamt of being? Because I think they're just more purposeful. We just, I don't know, I feel like when we were having you know, we only had one child but when we were having her it it wasn't really thought through as much all the little things. But these guys are great. They just they know what they're doing. And I feel really lucky that my grandkids are being raised by some really competent people.

Ah, that makes me want to cry. I definitely don't know exactly what I'm doing though. So I just want to clear that up.

You don't have to tell me that. Carianna let me think.

Well, Sherry, you did a really, really great job no matter how you feel about oh, you raised She's amazing. She's amazing.

Yeah, she is pretty amazing. But I know that did not come from us. We are just lucky enough to get to claim. So we get the credit.

There you go. All right. Well, yeah, that's all the questions that I had for you. So thank you so much for being here and for sharing your experience.

Once that crib is gone and you transition to a toddler bed, it can feel impossible to keep your child in their room. Hello jack-in-the-box! In this episode, Kayla and Carianna walk through 2 options and some mental shifts you can make so that you can cut out the drama at bedtime.

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How do I keep my child in their room at bedtime?

I get this question a lot. If I had to give it a number, I would say I probably hear this question in some way, shape or form about 20x a week from parents who are struggling. It is a very common struggle. I feel like this can be an especially tricky subject so talking through it helps! It helps us to re-frame the way we think about it because a lot of times we get all bent out of shape about sleep compared to other areas of parenting. I'm not not sure why but it just happens.

*This post may contain affiliate links. Please read my privacy and disclosure statement for more information.

 So what are your options?

 

#1 Silent Return

If your child leaves their room when they aren't supposed to (bedtime, middle of the night, early morning, naptime) you silently return them to their room. It's actually pretty self explanatory. This method is one of your two options. It is a lot more work up front. What this means is if your child leaves their room when they're not supposed to (whether that's bedtime or middle of the night, early morning nap time)  you are basically just silently returning them. So the the title is fairly self explanatory.

You're walking them back repeatedly. You're keeping it short and sweet. I would try to have an exact short script that you say every time so you're not tempted to be chatty or talk a lot or get drawn into conversation with them. You want to avoid engaging anymore than is absolutely necessary. This may mean that you're walking them back 100+ times. Honestly, you may have to walk them back a lot at first, and that's why this first option does not always work for families. You have to be able and willing to outlast your child's testing on this one without getting frustrated or exploding- even if it's taking hours of walking back or forth or you're getting up multiple times in the middle of the night. It takes a LOT of consistency from parents.

Can you tell this isn't my favorite option? I have seen it work but it does take a very special and a very patient parent to see it through. So you have to decide if you have the patience to do this at bedtime and in the middle of the night. If you don't, let's talk about option #2!

 

 

#2 Create a barrier at the door:

This is the option that I personally prefer and professionally prefer. I just see way more success with this. This approach means having something at the door that keeps your child from leaving whenever they feel like it. And I know that this one sometimes this can freak parents out more. So that's why we're going to talk through it because it shouldn't freak you out.

 

Barrier at the door options

Baby gate (or two)

Door monkey which holds the door in a cracked position (I like these ones here and here)

Childproof doorknob cover

Locking the door

 

Once you decide on your barrier method, then you will want to make sure that your child's room is truly child-proofed. Keep your video monitor so you can see them in there, bolt or strap the dressers to the wall (or simply remove all tall furniture for now) so that nothing can be tipped over, keep any cords out of reach, make sure there are no choking hazards in their room, etc. By the way, these safety measures should be taken whether you plan to use the Silent Return or Barrier at the Door. Once out of a crib and spending unsupervised time in their bedrooms, your child's sleep space needs to 100% child-proofed.

 

Here's the re-frame if you're unsure about having a barrier at the door

If you're reading this and thinking, "Oh my gosh, I could never have a barrier at my child's door..." First of all, I want to say, if you're not comfortable with it, that's okay. You can use the silent return or simply lay with your child as they fall asleep each time. If that's what you prefer to do, go for it! You are totally in charge of deciding how you want to handle sleep.

But what I would encourage you to do if you're struggling or feeling uneasy is to think of this idea of expanding the crib. When your child was in a crib for the first many months or years of their life, were you worried that they felt trapped in their crib? Probably not. I don't know many parents who have this fear of scarring their child from putting them in a crib.

So when we're switching and we're getting rid of the crib, we're really just treating the whole room like it is now their crib. And that's why we're putting the barrier at the door. We can treat the whole room like a crib- meaning they aren't able to just come and go as they please. By taking a second and re-framing it this way, I think it helps us see they've always been contained in the crib, now they're going to be contained in their room.

One of my all-time favorite sleep books, called The Happy Sleeper: The Science-Backed Guide to Helping Your Baby Get a Good Night's Sleep - Newborn to School Age, is written by two women who are mothers and psychologists. And they introduce this idea of expanding the crib. Here's how they put it:

"Many parents are not prepared for the persistence with which their little one will get up out of bed over and over. One mom told us that the first night she moved her son to a toddler bed, he got out of bed 110 times!

It helps tremendously to now imagine your child's bedroom as an expanded crib. Instead of being contained by the crib, you can now choose a gentle but clear way to contain your child in the bedroom, rather than allowing her to join you repeatedly in the living room. This is very effective in reducing her excitement at being able to get to where the action is. Keeping her in her room also keeps her in the darkness, where her brain is better able to fall asleep, and the sense of a fun game is also diminished if she can't come pitter-pattering down the hallway time after time."

 

 

Prep work before adding the barrier

I want to make it clear that I am not suggesting you randomly start locking your child in their room at night with no preamble or prep. This is a big changes and something you will want to talk about, show, role-play, etc before introducing it.

You will also be using your barrier in conjunction WITH your sleep coaching method- whatever that may be. This may mean working our way out of their room over a series of nights or leaving the room on night 1 but checking in frequently on them. So we aren't shutting the door and just leaving until morning.

This also doesn't have to be a forever barrier. Once your child understands the boundary that is their door and understands that it's not moving no matter how much they test, you can remove the barrier.

 

For more help with your toddler or preschooler's sleep, check out my resource page for 2-5 years. Here I offer freebies, relevant blog posts, courses, and 1:1 services for this age group!

I talk with many families when they are in the midst of deciding whether or not to sleep train. Today I offer 4 questions you should be pondering and thinking about before you take the plunge and decide to sleep train

4 questions:

1. How do I feel about crying?
2. Am I ready to get less sleep temporarily?
3. Do I have support? If not, how can I get my partner on board?
4. Can I commit to several weeks of making sleep my number 1 priority?

Related links:

Free 15 minute consult: allthesleeps.com/15minconsult

Newborn Sleep Resource Page: allthesleeps.com/newborn-sleep-help

Baby Sleep Resource Page: allthesleeps.com/baby-sleep-help

Toddler & Preschooler Sleep Resource Page: allthesleeps.com/toddler-preschooler-sleep-help

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Questions before sleep training

Hey Mama! This is Carianna here with your podcast episode today. And the very first thing I want to say before I forget, I'm worried I'm going to forget. This is our second to last episode in Season One, so I'm really excited that we have almost made it a whole season that we're going to take a break for the holidays, and then we'll be back for season two in 2022. But what I wanted to ask of you is, if you've been listening, please send me a DM at all the sleeps or if you're not on Instagram, send me an email, sleep at all the sleeps calm and just let me know what topics you would be looking forward to for season two because Kayla and I are going to start gearing up and getting ready for season two soon, so I would love to hear any feedback from you, and I'm just so glad that you've joined us for this season one. Now don't miss next week's episode which will be the last episode of season one, and we are going to talk about daylight saving time so you definitely do not want to miss that one. Now, on to today's topic, so we're going to talk about four questions to ponder before sleep training, and what I can tell you is I do lots and lots of free 15 minute calls with families before they decide to work with me, so it gives us a good chance to talk about their sleep situation and where they're at, talk about their goals that they want to achieve where they would like to be at. I'm able to answer questions for them about my services and courses that I offer, and then, time after time after time, the same common questions come up that parents usually have before they've decided to sleep train. So I thought, You know what, Let's make a podcast episode out of this because I know these are questions that so many families have, and I would just love to answer them for you. So let's talk about these four questions. So the first question I would like you to ponder before you decide if you're ready for sleep training is, how do you feel about crying. Okay. Because crying is naturally, something that's going to be a part of this process. Every child is different and how much crying, could be a little, it could be a lot. But what we really need to do is get serious about how do you feel about crying, maybe think through why you feel the way you do like when crying stresses you out or freaks you out. What are what's going on in your brain that's making you feel like this is the end of the world. But apart from that, just looking at how you feel about crying is understanding that crying is a part of the process and what I always tell families is that crying, is how your child communicates right and since we are going to be making changes. If we sleep train. It's natural that your child is going to have feelings about that that they're going to be frustrated that they're going to struggle. These are not in and of themselves, bad things, but the crying is how they're communicating that frustration and communicating that struggle. And what I also want you to know is that even though there's going to be crying, you can choose to be as hands on, or as hands off as you'd like to be. So the method you choose itself is not going to mean no crying, I am not a fan of the no cry marketing, I think that that is just baloney. Honestly, I think it's misleading I think it's even a little deceitful on some levels because kids cry. And I can't promise you that your kid won't cry during sleep training, I also can't promise you that your kid won't cry for any number of reasons. So, I'm not a big fan of pushing this like, oh no cry no cry, but I am a huge fan of finding the method that works for your family so if that means you are very hands on, you're right there next to the crib the whole time you're touching you're comforting you're talking to them. That's okay if that's the route you choose to go and I've seen that be very successful. On the other hand if you're someone who wants to leave the room and do checks, or if you just want to leave the room completely if that's where you're comfortable. I'm comfortable there as well so that's what I would say quite ponder how you feel about crying, and then accepting that crying is part of the process, and knowing that you have the option to choose how you're going to manage with the crime. Second question that I want you to ponder. Am I ready to get less sleep, temporarily, this is something that sometimes we don't think all the way through. But even though you may feel right now like your sleep situation is terrible and you're up a lot and you're just losing your mind or maybe you're feeling that way during the day, you can't set your child down when you make the decision to sleep tracking it is temporarily going to get worse before it gets better, and we get to the other side so that may mean, it's going to take longer for them to go down at bedtime, they may be up more frequently at night, they may spend more time awake at their night wakings their stretches at night may shorten before they get longer during the day naps are going to be an even harder process than they are right now, so just kind of accepting that that is the territory that comes with sleep training, and understanding that it's going to happen, and that's okay. It doesn't mean we have to stay stuck where we are right now, but I also don't want you to be blindsided when I know you already feel exhausted, and for a while you're gonna feel even more exhausted, until your child gets into the new rhythm and interrupting this episode is super quick, because I want to make sure you know that I have a sleep coaching Crash Course. If you're struggling with Night Waking short naps, early mornings, or you're just spending way too much time trying to get your baby to sleep. This course is for you. I walk you through step by step process all the information you need to successfully sleep coach your little one. So if you're ready for a positive sleep change, but it all seems too overwhelming, go check the description below. Okay, let's get back to the episode now.

Third question that I want you to ponder is, do I have support. And if I don't have support during this process, how can I get my partner on board. Okay, so if you are single, grab a friend and maybe your friend isn't going to stay with you while you sleep train, but somebody important in your life friend or family member who knows your sleep training, who is supportive of your decision, and who you can be texting through the process, and, you know, kind of a shoulder to cry on, ask them to be your cheerleader, have someone like that. Now if you have a partner, then you really need that partner on board with you especially if your partner is present at all during the night, waking up during the day. Because what we don't want is a partner who is not on board, and who is second guessing everything you're doing, telling you not to do it. You know who's undermining the work you do. So make sure that you're on board, and hopefully I don't offend anyone with this but I tell families a lot because oftentimes I will work with families, or talk to families before we work together, who one parent really really wants to do this because they are just dying with their current sleep situation, the other parent isn't very affected by the sleep situation, and they're like, Oh, we're not sleep training we don't need to sleep train, If that's your situation, I would encourage you to tag your partner in for the night wakings for getting the child down for the NAPS wherever the problem area is start tagging them in more, and once they understand how difficult the situation is for you, they're going to be a lot more agreeable to make changes, but if they're just sleeping all night. Their sleep is fairly uninterrupted, they're not going to understand that Sleep Train is your next step. Okay, so get them on your team get them on board. See if you can get them to experience what you were experiencing so they understand the other just extra thing I would tack on to the end there is even if you do have support whether that's family, friends, partner. Sometimes families do need that extra outside professional support and that's okay if that's where you find yourself. I will tell you from my own experience with my first son, we DIY did, and we were great with my second son, DIY, it was not going to cut it, and I needed a professional outside perspective and help. And so I totally get both sides of it. Just to refresh you guys, I offer various one on one services, where I put together plans specifically for a family, we have a call to talk through things, then we either have, you know, two days of email support or two weeks of email support, depending on what level of support you feel that you need to be successful and I am not at all, one that's going to push one or the other on you. I really leave it up to parents and I say, what do you feel like you need to be successful, and does that fit in your budget. And then on the other end of the spectrum, I do have more of a DIY course where families can take all the information in at their own pace, when it works for them, and then start implementing my day by day plan so if you feel like you need more support, whether it's the high end of support or the low end of support, I want you to know those options are available and those are things that I love, offering to families, I'll put a link in the show notes to those various offers so you can check them out if you'd like to. Alright, last question that you need to ponder before sleep training before deciding to sleep train, can I commit, several weeks to make Sleep, my number one priority. So look at your schedule, are you thinking about starting sleep training tonight, but then this weekend, you have two nights, you're going to be gone and your child's going to be way off schedule or with a different caregiver. Okay, so you have to figure out where you can fit it best and it may not be perfect, because some of us, rarely have two weeks where there's absolutely nothing going on, but you want to pick the best possible time to sleep train so that you are setting your child up for success, and maybe you'll get through the process, and things are going great, well before two weeks. That would be awesome. Maybe it takes a little longer than two weeks, but you want to have a plan, set up for success, so that you aren't, training, and then traveling for a week and then coming back home and feeling like you're starting from scratch again okay we want them to have time to learn the new skills, to have consistency to have their nap schedule honored to not be keeping them up late to not have visitors where we feel like we can't actually follow our plan to not be traveling so they're sleeping in a weird random place, we really really need to make sure we're setting them up for success, if we're going to go through that sleep training process. So, look at your schedule look out two weeks, maybe three to four before you decide when your start date is. Okay. Alright, so those are the four main questions honestly I could throw a fifth one in there, which is just, okay, now how do I sleep train, I don't know how to do this. But as I'm sure you guys know that is way too much for one podcast episode, but if you are interested in getting more help with the sleep training process and you want to know more about the various services and courses I offer, again I will link those in the show notes for you guys, and I'm so glad that you guys were listening, if you tuned in today, would you just take a moment to either head to Apple podcasts, and just drop a quick little review rate and review. Make sure that you are following this podcast if you aren't already. And if you really appreciated this, I would love to see you screenshot this and share it in your stories and just tell more people about this podcast because more and more people are finding it and it makes me so excited that we can spread the sleep info. This practical advice with as many families as possible so thank you so much for being a part of this dream of mine.

Questions before sleep training

It seems like so many different factors in your child’s life can cause sleep disruptions. But night time fears can leave you feeling really unprepared and unsure how to deal. Our goal with this podcast is to educate you on some big dos and don'ts so you feel slightly more prepared when those night time fears crop up!

 

Sleep Coaching Crash Course For Little Kids (2-5 years)

3 tips to end bedtime battles (free download!): freebie.allthesleeps.com/toddlerpreschooler

Toddler sleep & why it sucks: allthesleeps.com/toddler-sleep-and-why-it-sucks/

How to handle nightmares and night fears: allthesleeps.com/nightmares-and-night-fears/

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Episode 13: Dos & don'ts of dealing with night time fears

Night time fears
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of sleep talking moms, and today we are going to talk about what to do when your child is scared at bedtime when they have nighttime fears, and we kind of thought this would be fitting this was a great idea by Kayla since we have Halloween coming up, and it's almost spooky season. And, you know what this actually our story, we want to share another Kayla Karianna story too before we like hop into the sleep step, and I was just thinking, the one that we pick to share about kind of fits in because it's a costume, it's a costume story. Yeah, yeah, okay, Kayla Do you want to share this story with them, you want to start.

Sure, sure, sure. Okay, so we were not in classes together very often throughout our entire schooling. Never. It was a bummer almost never. I was more of a, like, middle of the road kind of student and carry and I was in a lot of advanced things you were to, you

know, man.

But anyways, so we ended up being in the same philosophy class. As I don't know, like, there were just a lot of really cool people in that class, like two of our at the time best guy friends were in it. And it was just, it was a blast. So, we were reading the book metamorphosis by Franz Kafka, and that you remember the author's name, I love these books I know you weren't like super into them I love them. Um, and so we just gotten done reading those and our assignment was to recreate, like a pivotal moment in that book. And so we picked this moment and I don't remember what the symbolism was at all, but we pick this moment where the protagonist was throwing apples at at a cockroach. Okay, so this was happening, like, the week of the week before spring break is when it was supposed to happen Karianna couldn't I don't remember if you went on vacation, like, a little bit before and so we missed it or something. So we had to wait all of spring break, and then the next day, Monday, that we came back we had to do our skit, And so I was wearing a giant box, like just ahead and my arms cut out and I was crawling on the floor and Karianna was throwing these apples at me. These apples had been sitting for a couple of weeks at this point, and they were rotten. And so the second sheet through the first Apple, it just exploded, and all over the classroom, all over the classroom all over people. Our teacher was cracking up. And we just kept doing it, and it was such a funny time, it was I

mean really, if we had had a different teacher we probably would have gotten into so much trouble but Mr rumps was just like, he thought it was hilarious, and he was.

Yeah, I hated, I hated the class but he made it bearable because that was just not my class, not at all. Yeah, it was so much fun though. And it was it was just a great group of people and so we were just always having fun and messing around. Did we learn a lot. Not sure

not probably school related things.

No, but it was like, memorable. So,

yeah, that's. And now I can say that I have been able to throw rotten apples at my best friend. Yeah, I

was, I was telling Carianna before we started recording that I really wish that we could just videotape some moments in our lives because I would definitely just like automatically because I would watch that one over and over and over again. It was so funny.

Oh man. Okay, so yes, that kind of ties into what we're talking about and Kayla, you are more of the you get into like the decorating for Halloween stuff.

Yes I love holidays I love decorating for holidays, I never thought I would be this mom but I am this mom. So, like the beginning of September is fair game for Halloween. So we have a bunch of stuff outside. We have a Jason, so my husband made a life size human shape out of trash bags and newspapers, and so we put a Jason mask on it and he's in like flannel shirt and jeans and he's sitting next to a skeleton, and they're having coffee on our front porch. We get far too into it like I already have my kids costumes. I'm ready.

Oh my gosh, I don't and yeah so we're recording this and it's like, still mid September I have no clue what my boy is are going to be for Halloween I got to get on that.

Well I think for me, um, you know, like, my kids are at the age where they're like, constantly changing what they want to be like every two seconds. And so, I was able to plan ahead because I'm right, he's almost two, he's gonna be Mr Rogers, and I got my little red card again and it like fits his personality because he's just a little sweetie sensitive little boy. And then, LS has been watching a lot of I don't know if any of your kids enjoy Steven Maggie, but it's like his most favorite show, and they talk a lot about Halloween pumpkins. So Ellis has to be a pumpkin that's all he's talked about, oh, four weeks already.

So that'll be cute. Yeah, it'll

be fun.

That'll be cute. Yeah, I'm definitely at the age with my voice where if we decide to early, we'll buy costumes, and then they're going to change their minds and I am not buying two sets of costumes so

no way

we'll wait. We'll wait a little bit, it's probably gonna be like a dinosaur or a transformer we're not that creative around here so, Kayla we talked a little before and you mentioned that you guys really haven't dealt much with beers yet, at the stage you're in. And I know that with my boys, we have had some random beers here and there. We haven't had a ton of consistent fears and honestly I feel like part of that is, it deals with temperament and personality but another part that I feel is really helpful. At least from our from our approach and our side of things is that our boys have always slept alone in their rooms, they've always slept in the dark, so it's not like it's something that comes and goes for them, or is foreign. And so I think that has helped a lot with the nighttime fears. So, if you're listening and you have a younger child, this is just my encouragement to you, to keep those good habits, to have them be the norm, because that can lessen those fears, versus when we kind of go back and forth like sometimes you sleep with mom sometimes you sleep on your own, that can, that's where some of those fears can crop up

more, okay so if at any point you are concerned or you are dealing with nighttime fears, what are some of the do's and don'ts to help your child through this time,

I would say the first probably do and don't, I would say, do talk about what your child is scared of during the day, so it's, it's good to talk about it. We don't want to talk about it at night. In the moment so if they're expressing the fears at bedtime or in the middle of the night, we don't want to stop and talk about it then we want to wait till sometime during the day when things don't feel as scary to talk through and, you know, depending on the age of your child, it may just be more of a one way conversation you may just be saying, you know, I know you were scared last night. You may be asking them to tell you what they're scared of you may be asking them to draw what they're scared up so you can see and talk about it but totally okay to talk about it, we just don't want to do it at night in the moment.

Okay, well, because we don't want to talk about what they're going through in the moment. What are some things that you can do or say, in that moment,

all right yeah so that's a great question because we want to know what we should be doing when our child is expressing a fear. And what I would recommend first is, whatever it is that we are saying to them, and whatever it is that you may be feeling inside. You want to make sure that you are exuding confidence that you are exuding calm that you aren't showing them that you are anxious or unsure about what they're expressing we don't want it to seem big and scary to them, and the way that it seems even scarier is if you kind of don't know how to handle it or you seem unsure. So be confident and whatever your responses and, you know, try not to hesitate. So, for example, the last time we dealt with a nighttime fear. It totally came out of nowhere, I was not prepared for it. Honestly, if I, because I, you know, deal with families all the time I felt very prepared but I was not like it was just out of nowhere so it pays to be a little prepared and to kind of think this through before it actually happens. But like the first thing out of my son's mouth after he told me he was scared, was he asked, Can I come sleep with you tonight. And that's like, not something that we do like not even on the table right right like probably once. I don't know, once a quarter, we may do asleep over. But that's, that's really it. So when he asked that, you know, your first instinct is to kind of like waver or be like, oh, probably not buddy, you know, but that kind of gives them almost a Oh, that was a probably that wasn't a no so maybe I should keep pushing it. So I was just very know you're gonna sleep in your room tonight but let's, let's talk about this let me come in and comfort. So be confident. Try not to hesitate in your responses, and then it's okay to comfort so do comfort do reassure them, if they're already falling asleep on their own if that's your norm, then typically we don't want to stay in there until they're asleep. If you can avoid it sometimes that that may not be avoidable, and that's okay you can always get back on track. But what I find when we stay in the room with them is that presents a message to them that they do need protecting from something they should be scared that you are going to stay there. And when we kind of keep to business as usual it more presents that message of, it's okay to be scared, you are safe. That's why we don't need to do anything different, because this isn't, you know, some big scary thing that's going to happen. Does that make sense.

That makes total sense yeah and it just like reminds me with everything that has to do with sleep training, and you know kind of behavior, training, I guess is what you call it for kids is that consistency being sure of yourself, and kind of like giving them like a, you know, No, we don't do this, or just being certain is certain and consistent, is so important.

Yeah, yeah because they take their cues from us. And so, the times that we are unsure inconsistent I mean that that is directly going to affect how they respond. I think the last big like do and don't I would say is I'm going to say the don't first so don't feel like you have to shelter your child from ever feeling scared. I think that's a natural instinct for us. But when we think through that we know like, my child is going to have ups and downs in their life, they're going to have times when they're scared and times when they're not scared, and they will need to learn to navigate that and what better way and place for them to learn to navigate that. Then, in the safety of your home during your predictable nightly routines, you know, so don't feel like you have to shelter them from that, then, for the do the flip side of this because we aren't worrying about sheltering them from ever feeling afraid, we do want to give them concrete things that they can do when they feel scared because we know throughout their lifetime, they're going to have moments of feeling afraid, that's part of being a human, so let's give them concrete things, so this is gonna, you know obviously changed depending on their age, they may have a stuffed animal or a lobby that you encourage them to snuggle or to protect when they feel scared. I've had I've had families tell their little ones before like if they sleep on their side to flip to the other side or flip their pillow over as a way to kind of mimic changing the channel in their brain so change it from this theory thoughts to the good thoughts right super simple, or you know other things with your child if there is maybe a particular character or thing that they love. I mean, it's funny, this is actually going to sound ridiculous but, I mean my boys are obsessed with dinosaurs right now. So for them, this would be comforting for some kids thinking about dinosaurs would not be comforting. But for my boys that would be it. So I would encourage them to lay down close their eyes and create like a Jurassic Park world in their brain and think about all those things that they love to think about maybe it's creating a frozen world in their brain. And really, like, sit down and do it with them at times so you can talk through like, do you see what's the land called where what's, what's the frozen land called is it Aaron Dell. Night time fears

Yeah, I don't know how you do that.

So like, talk them through like can you create Aaron dal in your mind, can you see the castle what's Elsa doing so really talking them through something that they can focus on that makes them happy, and then that's also just going to obviously steer their mind, they can't think about Elsa and also think about something that they're, that is scaring them so it really helps to distract and redirect, night time fears

No, this is so funny because it like just like, I don't know, it made me remember something. So, when I was like way too old to be like super scared about scary dreams. Are you ever I don't know I feel like they like sometimes you have like adult scary dreams when it's just like, yeah, bigger things but, you know, Frankenstein or something. But I anytime I would have a bad dream, I would sing. I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream in my head and this was like high school, college and then I would go through in my head and I would think about all of the flavors of ice cream that I could until i. So,

you were cream dreamscape,

yes I was creating my own happiness but I think that this is also like a really good opportunity for you to maybe talk about, you know like, it depends on how scientific you are if you're one of those parents that does a lot of like emotional and feeling talks. But this is a really great time to talk about like, it's okay to feel scared. And, you know, feeling scared is a normal biological response by your body and talk about you know, the things that they can do anytime that they're scared, not just night fears but anytime that they're feeling scared whether it's of heights at the park, or you know somebody is being mean to them, things that they can do that can help them throughout their life for the fear emotion. Night time fears

Yeah, yes, absolutely, absolutely and I love that you said that because of what I would say you know parents are looking for, like, Okay, we've talked about these, how do I like respond in the moment, you know, I would recommend that we validate how they're feeling right so I know you're scared. I know you're scared. It's okay to be scared, validate that reassure them, you're safe, you know, mom is right here or mom is right down in the living room or mom is right outside your door so reassure them, and then that exposure piece is really important too, so we can't expect them to just magically The fear goes away one day that's not how it works right. It's that systematic exposure to it, and then learning to cope through it and gaining confidence that makes that anxiety and that fear smaller and smaller and smaller, each time. So I would say validate reassure, and then expose them to it so follow through with your usual nighttime routines, night time fears

and I don't know if what you would say. But do you recommend like spending time in their room if it's specifically their room like during the day like I don't know, I know that like us, we just had our power out yesterday, for a lot of the day, and so I made sure like I was like oh this is a great opportunity. The rooms dark because we have the stuff up on the windows and so I gave the boys, flashlights, I had a flashlight, and we played in the room just to show like it's safe. There, you know, this is your bed, this is your stuff these things are all here, and you're okay. Yes. No, I Night time fears

love that idea Kayla I'm so glad you mentioned that because that's something else you can do if you have a child that's expressing particularly a fear of the dark is giving them like giving them a flashlight at night so having the lights off for sleep like giving them a flashlight and telling them, you know, if you're scared, you can turn this off so kind of giving them some feelings of control back over that. But yeah, then just playing, playing in the dark playing with flashlights spending time in their room like that. That's a great idea because that is exposing them to it, and giving them those positive experiences that oh my room was very dark and I was in there, and I was fine and everything was safe. So yeah, I love that. I'm glad you said that. night time fears

And while we're kind of on the trail of like what to do. I've seen a lot of things out about monsters spray. What is. What's your thought on that. So,

I'm not a huge fan of monster spray. But I will say like if you're using monster spray and it's working well for you, like, there, there's nothing wrong with that, go ahead and keep using it like I this is not, you know, not to make you feel bad about that at all. What I think monster spray conveys to kids, is that they need protecting from something right so we're spraying for monsters. It's almost like we're saying okay monsters are real, you should be scared of them, we're gonna spray to protect you from them. And if we think about it, that's probably not the message we want to be sending to them right we don't want to be sending the message that monsters are real and you should be scared, so that's why I lean away from Monster spray because I would rather just go like the honest straight up route and say, monsters aren't real, it's okay to feel scared but you're safe monsters aren't real, rather than kind of playing into this imaginary land where they are real and we need to protect our little ones from it. So, again no shade if you do use monster spray, but that is why I don't recommend monster spray when I work with families dealing with these issues. night time fears

Alright guys that's it for today's show. Thank you guys so much for listening. Take care and have a good week. Thank you so much for listening to the sleep talking moms podcast, we hope you are walking away from this episode, feeling empowered and encouraged to tackle your sleep issues. If you enjoyed the episode please take a second to grab a screenshot, share it in your Instagram stories, and tag us at all the sleeps. See you next time. Night time fears

Is there anything harder than dealing with newborn sleep? In this episode, Kayla and Carianna commiserate about their experiences with their newborns. Then Carianna shares the top 5 things you need to know about your newborn and how their sleep works. These tips will help you start off with your newborn on the right foot!

 

Safe Sleep Basics- allthesleeps.com/safe-sleep-basics

Newborn Freebie- freebie.allthesleeps.com/newborn

Newborn Sleep Course

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Episode 12: Top 5 things you need to know about newborn sleep

Top 5 things you need to know about newborn sleep Hey guys it's Carianna and before you listen to this episode I did want to make a disclaimer. In this episode, Kayla and I share candidly about our newborn sleep journey, as well as sharing newborn sleep tips. And so I felt it was really important to let you know we share some unsafe sleep practices that we ourselves did. I think it's important for us to be open and honest about things we have done, but I also do not want there to be any confusion about what is considered safe, and I am a big advocate for safe sleep so in the show notes I'm going to be linking a blog I have written called Safe Sleep basics that really lines out the basics you need to know. And what I want to leave you with, are following the ABCs, those are the best preventative measures when it comes to safe sleep and to reducing things like SIDS or accidental suffocation and strangulation in bed, any kind of sleep related deaths so A is we always want your child to be sleeping alone in their own space so not with other adults or with siblings or with pads, we want them to have their own space. B is for back so we want to be placing your newborn on their back to sleep and we want them to sleep there until they're able to roll on their own. And then C is for crib or bassinet or play yard or pack and play. Those are the only safety approved sleep spaces for your little ones so we do not want them sleeping on adult mattresses on couches in rack and plays in swings in DockAtot. We don't want any of that stuff because those spaces are not considered safe, and they do increase the risk of a sleep related death, or of SIDS happening so I just want to lead with that disclaimer I hope you guys enjoy the episode. And like I said we really just wanted to be open and honest about our own experiences, but I also want to make sure that I am spreading safe sleep information for you so you can make educated decisions for your family.

Hey mama. This is Carianna and Kayla to best friend moms and your co host asleep talking moms, we know that tackling sleep issues can feel overwhelming and confusing, so we are here to provide you with practical sleep, advice, we want you to walk away from each episode with information, you can actually use. Let's dive in and talk sleep. Top 5 things you need to know about newborn sleep 

Welcome guys today in our episode we are going to talk about newborn sleep, and, oh man, newborn sleep is just a whole other beast, and so Kayla and I, we want to first commiserate with you a little and share some of our own newborn sleep, stories, and kind of what we went through, and then I want to also leave you with, kind of my top five tips for things you can do to maximize your newborn sleep, we're not going to be expecting great things from our newborns as far as sleep is concerned, but there are absolutely things we can do to help them along, and to just help them sleep as good as they're able to in that newborn stage. So, you know, real quick, I would just share when I had my oldest seven and a half years ago, which is crazy to say, I've seen that isn't that crazy, I feel so old and he's getting so old. Oh my goodness, but I just had no, I had no frame of reference for newborn sleep I had done, zero reading or studying up on what was appropriate for newborn sleep, and I just remember coming home from the hospital and thinking that I was going to be able to just set him in his crib, he was going to go to sleep, he was going to sleep, great, because I loved sleep so I thought okay i love sleep, he's gonna love sleep too. And that is, you know, not at all what happened. So I was shocked and I was just, you were really just playing catch up for the next couple months we were in survival mode, just doing whatever we could, and I'm sure as we kind of talk about our own newborn sleep experiences, we're going to probably be sharing some of the unsafe things that we did so, I just want to maybe lead with this disclaimer too that safe sleep happens on a flat firm surface like a crib or bassinet or a pack and play that we don't want to be having kids sleep in poppies, or swings or car seats or DockAtot or rockin plays or anything like that. But we also want to be real with you and share our own experience. So, you know, not gonna, not gonna lie about the things that we did because we are desperate and we understand that when parents are desperate sometimes they do desperate things. So absolutely, Kayla will you share a little about Atlas, when he was born. ls is, he's almost for next month. Oh, and you may be able to hear him in the background. He's playing with playdough. So everyone say hi to Ellis. Um, so I didn't really know what to expect as a new mom, nobody kinds of nobody tells you, lots of things. So, I had no idea what I was up against, but Alice was kind of a special case anyways because he came out of the gate and he had really really awful reflux like projectile was very uncomfortable. He was a very very fussy baby. Top 5 things you need to know about newborn sleep 

And we got to a place where he was only sleeping in our arms, and so my husband and I would take turns on the couch. For the first three months of his life.

We were exhausted. I'm sorry I'm interrupting you, when I came, visited, I don't remember how old he was when I came in, stayed. He was so little, was he just like a couple weeks, or was he was just a couple of weeks and you slept with him the first shift. Yeah, I took a shift on the couch. I don't remember what I think I was watching like the office, and I took like the first hours or so holding him, and I wish we were so grateful because we have not slept in the same bed since we brought home.

But yeah, we were, I was probably like, I would say I know that they make you fill out those, those forms at the doctor's office, but I would definitely say that I was like an undiagnosed postpartum depression because I was exhausted all the time, I didn't resent him, but I was mad that like so many things were different. And I think that honestly I think that some of the reason behind that, aside from, you know raging hormones, all of that stuff was the fact that I was so exhausted, and you get to a place where even the smallest thing is such a big deal when you're exhausted.

And so we were sleeping with him on the couch, we were taking turns, I was breastfeeding I was pumping, and I know a lot of you guys have been here too, it was just hard.

So I was so grateful once he turned four months, we had kind of a rocky start, we did, let him sleep in the rock and play.

I will say though that it was supervised, because I was fearful of SIDS and all of those things that new moms are.

And then, I'm Ray came, my second one. And he was a sleeper. He was pretty good. We had a couple of rocky things with eating breastfeeding, but other than that he was great we could set them down in the crib, and he would go to sleep, for you know, 45 minutes or however long newborns do and then he would wake up and we do the whole barely awake thing and then he'd sleep again.

And it was good. Yeah, that's so nice that you, you know after you had such a rough experience with your first, but then your second was much smoother, that's awesome.

Yes and you know, well now everybody's gonna know my second one was surprised.

And, like I had talked to Carrie and many, many times saying, oh my gosh, could you imagine doing the newborn stage again like can you imagine that and then I'm not even kidding you, it was probably a couple weeks after we had that conversation. And I was just like, well, guess I'm doing it again. Top 5 things you need to know about newborn sleep 

Yes, but he made our family complete so he did this year. Yes, me too and it's, uh yeah I totally I mean I remember that call when you told me you were pregnant with her then you were just kind of like I was done, like, I get back to this mental space of starting over with a brand new baby, but I'm so glad that I'm really is here and is a part of your family. Yes, yeah. Top 5 things you need to know about newborn sleep 

And definitely glad that that you know the second time around you kind of know what to expect. I had already been through a very very bad sleeping experience so chances are it probably couldn't have been much worse.

And so I was just with the knowledge that I had gotten from you.

And just the knowledge of being a second parent and knowing what to expect. I feel like it went so much easier.

Yeah, yeah. And when my second was born Campbell he's five now, when he was born, I definitely, I knew more about sleep I still felt a little clueless about newborns sleep, to an extent. And I really just, I was not in a place to really even work on his sleep when he was a newborn, you know because I very much believe there are gradual simple things that we can be doing and practicing from early on, but if you don't feel like you have the mental energy to do that, you know, sometimes you just don't, don't feel like that and that's really how I felt with him, I honestly, when I had my first son, I was, I went back to work. It's a six week six weeks I was working full time I was working split shifts. So then when Campbell came, I had already just left my job, a couple months before and I naively thought okay this is going to be so much easier this time around because I'm not going to be struggling to pump enough, and breastfeeding is going to be way smoother, and if I'm exhausted it won't matter because I'm not going to work. Again I was naive, and I still you know I struggled a lot with things I struggled with breastfeeding, even though I was with him 24 Seven. Top 5 things you need to know about newborn sleep 

I was still exhausted and not happy about it, even though I didn't have to go to work, doesn't mean you're not working all day trying to keep two humans alive, you know, and yourself yeah myself. Yes, and then I just totally underestimated what it would be like to have a two year old and a newborn home and what all that would entail, you know.  Top 5 things you need to know about newborn sleep 

So yeah, we, we struggled with camp sleep I think probably if I'm remembering correctly his naps were okay, but at night, honestly I got to a point where we just started co sleeping, every night and we just kind of stayed stuck in that pattern until four months and then I sleep trained him so. Not something that if I had a third child, I would want to do things differently this time but yeah that's kind of where we ended up and newborn sleep is just hard. It's hard. So if you're in the newborn sleep stage and you're listening to this or if you're gearing up for it. We're not wanting to scare you, but we also like we very much felt like we did not know how hard it would be beforehand, and we wish we had been warmed, is that, is that right Kayla. Yes, and I mean, just also I mean, for the most part of it that's like you don't know until you're in it, because we can tell you like, you know, You're probably going to be really, really, really tired if you have another kid, you're never going to feel like you're spending enough time with one of them, and you're going through all these hormonal changes and you're bleeding more than anybody ever told you that you were people eating and all of these things and it's hard guys it's hard but if anything we can also tell you that there is another side of it, and you get through it.

And with these five tips that Cariann is going to talk about there's things that you can do to set your newborn up to be ready to sleep train at that four month mark, yes, yes, absolutely, and I will say to that, you know I have a newborn sleep course, and I have many families not every family because this happy every family's experiment experience, but I have many families that go through that course and that implement these very gradual things from the very beginning. And don't ever have to sleep train, because it's just been a gradual part of their little one's life, and I think Kayla that probably lines up a little more with with your experience with eimeria like you guys were just able to set him down earlier so you didn't have a big like sleep training week where you had to sleep train him it just kind of naturally happened as you practiced, yes yeah and we I mean, like I said we were really lucky he was a sleeper. Okay so let's hop into the five things. The first thing that I really want you to know about your newborn sleep, is that they have two stages of when they're a newborn, one stage called the quiet stage, this is their deep sleep so they're going to be very deeply asleep, you're not going to be seeing movement you're not going to be hearing grunting. They're going to be really really asleep, and in fact if you try to wake them up when they're in this quiet stage of sleep. Top 5 things you need to know about newborn sleep 

It may be very hard because they're just that deeply asleep. The second stage of sleep they have is what we call active sleep so this is a lighter stage, they will be moving at twitching, maybe they're kicking or grunting. They may even cry for several seconds here and there, but still technically be in an active stage asleep, so I find that's helpful to know because they may still have their eyes closed and be sleeping, but they're, you know they're moving around and you may think in the middle of the night, oh gosh they're awake, but if we can try to kind of pause before rushing over there may be times that if we didn't pause, we would accidentally wake them up.

So I think that's helpful to know about our newborns. Yeah, actually I didn't know that either. I've known you for how long and I didn't know that there were two different sleep, that they had so that's cool. Yay. All right, so the next one I would say is, remember that they have a very strong, what we call Moro reflex, or a startle reflex. So, this basically they feel kind of like they're in freefall. And so they will jerk, their body, their limbs will jerk, and if they're sleeping when that happens, It's probably going to wake them up. So swaddling is so, so helpful for sleep. You know we want to make sure that they're getting time out of the swaddle that they're getting, you know tummy time eventually that doesn't come right away but that does come eventually as you build that in anytime they're awake, we don't want them swaddled but if they are sleeping and we want them to continue sleeping swaddling is really really helpful to keep them from prematurely, waking themselves up, because of that reflex. The next thing I would say that I want to make sure you know about newborn sleep is that we can be setting a consistent wakeup time for them, which will help their day kind of start to make sense so their day is not going to be predictable by any means for several months. But if we run into this thing where we're not starting their day we're not exposing them to light until 1011 o'clock, maybe even noon, some days that just naturally is going to mean that bedtime is much much later, so I recommend trying to keep it within an hour range, every morning that you're starting their day waking them up, exposing to light, talking to them, doing their first fading of the day, and, and try to have an hour range so maybe that's sometime between seven and eight, maybe that's between eight and nine, or six to seven. But then that means any time before that our worker, if they're awake, we're still going to treat it like nighttime so we want to keep them in darkness, you can absolutely be responding and attentive to them, but we don't want to be super chatty like we may be during the day, we want to be low stimulation low key and that will help help their body as they mature to figure out what's day, and what's night. The fourth thing I want to talk about is to be mindful that their period of being awake during the day is short, so when we're talking about an itty bitty newborn who just came to Earth with us, it's gonna be like, 45 minutes max that they can be awake, and sometimes depending on how slow or fast they eat. That may be the entire time they're feeding, and then it's right back to sleep for their next snack, but as they get older as they get more efficient at eating, you know the eating is going to take up less and less time, but we still want to be mindful of about 45 to 60 minutes of awake time, so that they're not getting overtired, so they're not being overstimulated, and you know this is probably the main thing that I remember doing really well with my second is following those wake windows, I was kind of like clockwork with him, which is why I think naps went better for him, versus Ethan who I was just like, whatever, I don't know, I have no idea when or how much he nabbed I can't even remember at this point but that's the same here I think that wake windows, and then having that wake up time I know that we did that too and there were some days where guys I completely understand it's hard to wake them up when you're like exhausted yourself, and you're like, I have to get him up between six and seven every day, or whatever that timeframe is for you, and you're like buddies sleep be mean, but it really did, it was an investment in the future and future Kayla thanked past Kayla very much for doing that, oh my gosh I talk about that so much with my families when we work with them really whatever age that when we're trying to make changes or we're trying to work towards a goal, you are investing your sleep right now. Because if you're changing things you're not going to get the same amount of sleep that you usually are but you're investing and sacrificing your sleep now. You know, in order to get that better sleep for everyone down the road so it is definitely an investment of that current sleep. All right, the last thing I would recommend is just always being curious about your newborn sleep. So, so often I see it you know one I see that families will rush over and accidentally wake their child when they're really just in an active stage asleep so we always want to pause and be curious, but also sometimes we tend to like, we hear our child, starting to wake in the night and we rush straight to, you know what I would call the big guns so we rushed rushed straight over to rock in the back to sleep, or to feeding them back to sleep without first being curious of, is this something they need, or can they go back to sleep with less help can they go back to sleep if I just go replace the past see can they go back to sleep. If I rest a hand on their chest, you know, a heavy hand, or do they actually is this actually have a hunger waking. So I just recommend always be curious, always pause. Easier said than done because in the middle of the night, you're like, Okay, your brains just telling you do whatever you can, the fastest to get back to sleep. But by pausing and being curious that does set us up for the future to be in a better spot than if we just instinctively react to whatever's going to be the quickest, in the moment. So the last thing I want to mention here, you know after kind of talking about those five tips, I do want to make sure you're aware that I have a newborn sleep course that's online self paced, it's geared towards zero to 12 weeks so if maybe you're expecting or if you are in those first zero to 12 weeks, and you're struggling and you're just looking for some more guidance on how to work through applying some of these things on how you can be curious on how you can gradually learn to lay your newborn down awake. My course is a very low key, low pressure, gradual way to do that and to practice from the beginning so I highly recommend taking a look at that, if this is kind of the stage you're in, and you're struggling, and I will put a link to that in the show notes for you guys. Alright guys, and as always thank you so so much for listening to us and we look forward to talking to you again next week.

This transcript was generated by https://otter.ai

In case you didn't know, we're kind of obsessed with sleep environments around here. As a pediatric sleep consultant, I see firsthand what a difference the right environment can make. As moms, we love our sleep and have learned that an ideal sleep environment lends itself to better sleep for the whole family!

Listen in as Kayla and I break down the science behind our obsession with room temperature, darkness levels, and white noise.

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Episode 9: Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments

Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to sleep talking moms. We are on episode nine. And today we are going to be talking about sleep environment and all those things that can help your baby and child and yourself sleep at the optimal level. So Carianna Yes, take us into this one. I cannot stress enough like, these things are non negotiables when I work with families, because I know how much they help. And while it's not necessarily a magic fix, I can't tell you how many times I've like gotten on the phone with somebody. And before we even started working together, they implemented a darker room for naps or white noise for sleep. And it's made a huge difference. So I just can't I can't stress the importance of this episode. Enough. But I'm sure that you have heard this yourself, Kayla, I often get the question. Well, how long? Do I have to have this like ideal environment for my child to sleep better? I have heard that from both sets of mothers. Absolutely. That was like when I first implemented these things into my children's sleeping arrangement. That was the number one question is like, when are you going to get rid of that? How? How can you continue to do this in all of the places? So I know we will get into those answers later on. Yes, yeah, I want to hold off the answer to that question. I know it's a burning question. I want to hold that off until we've kind of talked through some of the specifics and sciency stuff about sleep environment.
Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments So should we just start off with talking about room temperature for sleep? Yes, let's dive on in. Okay, so an ideal room temperature is going to be 68 to 72 degrees Fahrenheit. If you are Celsius, 20 to 22 degrees Celsius. That is what we're looking for as far as room temperature goes. And honestly, cooler is better than hot when it comes to sleep. Okay, so if we're going to err on one side or the other, we air on the cooler side rather than the warmer side. Okay, so can you tell us why cooler temperatures are better? Absolutely. So our body actually needs a natural dip in temperature in order to release melatonin at bedtime and melatonin we're going to talk a lot about melatonin, but it is our sleepy hormone. So it helps us initiate sleep. And you know, if you think about it, like if we didn't live in homes, in environments where the climate was, you know, so well controlled. You know, if we lived outside like our ancestors, we would experience a natural dip in temperature in the evening. And so that's just what our bodies need to help initiate sleep. This is also you know, oftentimes when you hear about bedtime routines, a bath is included. Or a shower where to the stage now where we're doing showers at night with my boy it's like a whole new world. But that's why we recommend that because if you think about it when you get out of a warm bath or out of the warm shower you actually your your body temperature plummets and gets cooler initially right and so that helps with the sleep onset that helps with the melatonin production. Even
Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments as adults like we will often wash up even if we're not taking a full on shower, like washing our faces. I don't know if you do that before bed, Kayla, but yes, I'm in my 30s so I've got to do a face regimen. Oh, you have a whole face regimen. Wow. I do. I Oh, I'm impressed. Very impressed. I do not you think I would because my mom is the Mary Kay consultant, but I just use water. Ooh, sorry, mom. Sorry mom. I know you're listening. So anyways, we we have our own ways of doing that to where we wash our face with warm water. It helps drop Our body temperature a little bit so temperature is huge cooler is better 68 to 72 degrees Fahrenheit. That's what we want to aim for. Okay. Should we move on? Yeah, I think so. So you talked about temperature. Next let's talk about darkness. Yes, darkness. super important. I can't stress this one enough. We want it pitch dark. Pitch Black pitch dark basically when you're in your child's room, whether it's nighttime I'm early morning, naptime. You don't want to be able to see your hand in front of your face. That's how dark it should be. You should be running into things. Almost And, you know, there's a couple reasons why I would say the reasons are different depending on If we're talking about night Or if we're talking about You know, early morning Time So let's let's talk about night for Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments And again, we're going to talk about melatonin, our sleeping hormone. Okay melatonin production now Not only is it right related by temperature, it's also regulated by light and darkness. So, if your retinas are sensing light, they You're going to send a signal to your brain that it's not time to produce melatonin yet. So, another reason we want to kind of dim lights during the bedtime routine, kind of start lowering the level of light And then for sleep, we want no light so that we are not inhibiting that melatonin production when we're Talking about early in the morning or we're talking about half time, you know we're not having that surgery. Have melatonin like we are at night Okay, so That's not necessarily helping For that, ask But darkness is is still important. So we have to remember that our little ones aren't motive. Good sleepers right Kayla? You You wake up and you look at the clock and it's 4am you don't wake up that early. No you don't wake up that early. You I know you wake up early but you don't start your day better not not afford just now. difference but no, not at four. So if you wake up and you see it's four o'clock, what do you do? I'm going to turn over and go back to bed. Exactly because you know like, I need an extra hour of sleep. I will feel Better I will be happier. I will have this smoother time with my kids right like you can reason through that, yes, our kids Don't think that way so if they wake up they Can't tell time some of them so So that darkness level And making sure that it is pitch black when we want them to sleeping. That is like there. Biggest signal So if they wake up and they're like, Oh, I think I see light I think it's playtime. They're not thinking Oh if I don't go back to sleep, I'm going to be really crabby all day and I'm going to feel like crap. They they're not motivated like we are so that darkness how With early wakings with naptime and just making sure there aren't distracted actions for them and that it's sending that Strong cue to their brain Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments Yeah Can I recommend And something that I'm sure that you do this with you Your families but I know For us what helped, even during like the getting into naptime process, whatever that looks like because I know people have bedtime routines and I know that people often have an naptime routines as well. I know that here I Like shut the blinds and I pull the curtains. So that you know like this 1530 minutes before now Time, it's a little bit darker. I don't really know if that helps out scientifically or biologically with the kid but it helps me And maybe hopefully I'm free to understand like, Oh, it's Getting closer to naptime. Things are darker So if that's if your kid is somebody who's, you know, my kids are both very, very hyper. Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments So if your kids are like that and you think that that might help signal like okay, we're getting close. I totally wrecked doing it because I know that it helps us know I love that idea. I think that's absolutely good. To help because you do that on a regular basis and it is almost It helps bridge naptime and bedtime not that they're gonna think that naptime is bedtime because that's not something that happens once our circadian rhythm is developed around three months. But you are showing them Very strong association that It gets dimmer and then we Do our routine and then we go to sleep. And they're seeing that concern Instantly I think that's awesome. Kayla, you Yay, yay Oh Hey, let's talk about white noise. The third main factor in our sleep environment. Kayla Are you a fan of white noise? Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments I'm a huge fan of white noise and I actually have the ones that you recommend. I know that you will talk about that a little bit later, but The ones that we have are portable and so and they're battery operated and they're rechargeable, so you can use them in the car. If you're on a trip, you can Use them at the hotel room at the Airbnb that you Mother in law's whatever wherever the kid is, you can Move this thing and again Help you no matter where you are Yes, I'm obsessed with white noise. I'm I'm literally obsessed with white noise. I love it. I use it myself. Me too. Me too and I we've recently started that I don't know maybe in the last Each year or a year and a half, so it hasn't always been something that I've done, but I have noticed a difference. I know a Especially for my husband. He is the Lighter sleeper like I'm pretty much dead to the world when I'm asleep. Now you are Don't wait. I am not One of the moms who is like hearing every single sound my kid makes and waking up I'm like dead. But my husband is a very light sleeper and he would go through periods of really having trouble sleeping. And when we added white noise, I think he would say that it has significantly helped. So it's huge not just for babies, you know. So with white noise, what I recommend is We're using true white noise. So we're not using things like oh waves or lullabies or rain sounds. We want that Just a very continuous consistent sound that doesn't have a bunch of up and down stimulating things going on and we want to aim for like 60 to 70 decibels as far as loudness goes, and we want it to play Pretty continuously so we want it playing all night long. Every nap. Basically if you want your child sleeping, we want that to be playing in with all the things that you've talked about temperature during And now with the white noise. What is it about the white noise that makes it It's so important to sleep with white noise. It mainly acts as a buffer, Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments okay, so even when we're sleeping our brain is still Always processing stimuli. And if we happen to be in a lighter stage of sleep, when there's a noise around us, you know whether it's a car door outside of our house or someone washing dishes or whatever a dog barking if our Brain picks up on that and we're in a lighter stage of sleep, there's the chance that it will fully pull us out of sleep and wake us up. So white noise acts as a really good buffer to keep us from hearing those external sounds that we don't need to and you know, we do have studies that show Show us sleeping with white noise decreases the time it takes us to fall asleep. It increases the time we Spend a sleep overnight, and that overall it just improves our quality of sleep. So very much backed by research that that white noise is helpful and again, not just Four little ones for all humans. Honestly, I have a friend too. Even that white noise for her dog and And it how long with Dog Yeah, I mean, it's not just a human thing. Although Don't ask me to show you studies on that, but well, and I was gonna day two. I'm over here. I live in a pretty populated neighborhood. Our houses are pretty close together and the City has been doing road work right in front of our house for like the past two weeks. And if you're like me, I'm a control freak. Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments I'm type A I honestly I'm very proud of that. Should be but one thing like For some reason, they've been starting Like literally five minutes after I put it down For his nap oh oh So I have been like every single time they do it I like you know kind of stress. I feel it in my shoulders, a little bit of tension. And the white noise mixed with I mean, I'm sure mixed with all of these other things, but White Noise especially has been a lifesaver because I don't have to worry as much Because he's not hearing the beep, beep beep when they Back up, they're not hearing the jackhammering He's just out. Yeah, so If you're like me at all And you're concerned about the noise level
in your neighborhood, your apartment complex wherever it may be. This is a huge, huge help to keep them from Waking up so that you can get your stuff done or you can get a nap or do whatever you need to do. But that time Yeah. And another thing that you didn't mention other siblings, right, like, yeah, yeah, I mean, you don't have to worry about trying to keep your older child quiet while baby sleeps when when Campbell my second was a newborn we had white noise In this room and we actually had To sound machines Outside in The hall just because the way our house is set up. The living area where Ethan would always play is actually you know, it's not that far from Campbell's room and I could just turn all three of them on and then I didn't have to constantly be telling Ethan like, you need to be quiet. Be quiet. Your brother's sleeping. I could just kind of let him go more live your life. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so now we should probably get to the question When can I stop using these things for my child sleep. What do you think Kayla? I'm putting you on the spot. Yeah, well, I ain't know the answer to this because one I followed you forever. You're my best friend. We've talked about this before. I mean, optimally never. If it's not broke, don't fix it. So if these things are working for you, then just keep it up. I mean, obviously you're going to see yourself in situations where at Little bit noisier you're in a hotel room and I don't know if there's any hotel rooms that don't have blackout curtains but you know any of those things like sometimes you're going to forget the way noise machine or whatever but I think all Ultimately, if you're giving Your kid the gift of beautiful sleep, then why would we fix it? Yeah, no I agree I'm I'm in the camp of if it's not broke don't fix it. I do think that you You can experiment like if you're really it shouldn't go Add a bunch of light in your child's room for some reason you can experiment with But if you notice, like, Oh yeah, this really makes naps rough. Then I would go back to the basics because there's a reason that we benefit from all of these things and why they help us sleep better. The other thing that I would say is As your child gets older and does start to become more of a motivated sleeper like us adults then When I think you know, it would make the most sense to start messing with these things if you're really wanting to get away from white noise or if you really want them, you know, to, to not have blackout curtains on their room or whatever You know, I would wait until they're three plus years old to really mess with those things when they start figuring out that their body feels good when sleeps and you know We do have more of that. internal motivation Helping them leap instead of them. Just viewing Sleep as you know, the time When the playing stops, which is kind of where we're at for the first several years, they just, you know, they're like, well, I don't want to sleep I want to keep playing and that's totally normal for them to feel that way. But yeah, I think you can experiment with it if you experiment and it goes back Go back to the basics that you know work. There is nothing wrong with using white noise for years and years and years. You know, as long as it's at the appropriate level, there's no issues with that. And it's just biology that we sleep better in the dark and in that ideal environment, but also guys, like don't be afraid to make your house look like a meth lab and put up some aluminum foil. It's okay. It's okay. I'm giving you permission to make your house look like a meth lab. I'm so glad you said I've had clients send me pictures of like their babies window from outside of the house and be like with a loom. tinfoil taped up to block out the light and they're like, yeah, my house looks like a meth lab. Thank you Carrie. Yeah. They continue to do it because it works with sleep. So, you can use aluminum foil in a pinch. I love a blackout easy window curtains are not curtains their window covers that. Velcro up. I love, love, love those for white noise. I love love Your fan. I will link All of the products that I use in the show notes, you can check them out. But I have pretty good Consistently recommended. The same products All along. If you're traveling slumber is a great idea. option. It's like a A privacy pod that goes over the Pack and play or over you know what toddler cot to provide that separation in that darkness. So lots of things you can do even if you aren't in your own home. Firstly we are so glad you joined us for the sleep talking moms. podcast today. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a second to grab a screenshot. Share it in your stories and tag us of all this sleeps See you next time. Why I'm obsessed with sleep environments

Nobody likes separation anxiety. Not the parent, not the child, and definitely not the person you are passing your child off too! Unfortunately it's just one of those growing pains for children that we all go through.

Listen in as Kayla and I share our own experiences with separation anxiety and leave you with some solid tips for handling separation anxiety like a boss without compromising sleep in the process.

Also see:

Four tips to handle separation anxiety without compromising sleep

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Episode 8: How to handle separation anxiety like a boss

How to handle separation anxiety like a boss. we are going to talk about separation anxiety, which everybody loves separation anxiety, right? Yeah, it is kind of a current favorite over here. So this will be really great for us to talk about. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I know that Kayla, you can relate to this, for sure. So many parents I've talked to it's separation anxiety. Now, when it happens in this age we're in is just so much harder, because so many of our kids have been with us 24, seven, or, you know, have not been around other caregivers as much as usual because of COVID. And so it just makes it that much more frustrating, and so much more of a struggle. Absolutely, we are definitely there. And I'll be excited to kind of share our stories. Because I know that we are on over here, we've been at the very, very, like, most extreme COVID bubble out of anybody that I know. So I have, I have a little bit of insight into what that looks like how we've handled it, that type of thing. So if you're anywhere between, not as I don't know, not as what's, what's the word I'm looking for? strict or Yeah, that is strict, or Yeah, you're on one martius part of this. Yes. If you're on one part of the spectrum or the other. How to handle separation anxiety like a boss I think that we definitely have some advice that we can give you there. Yes, yeah. So let's talk a little about why separation anxiety happens. So really, it can happen anytime, after usually around six months. That is when object permanence happens, which, if you haven't heard of object permanence, basically, it means, you know, you put a ball in front of your baby, you take the ball away and put it behind your back, when they've reached object permanence, they understand that that ball still exists, even though it's they can't see it. And before that point, they they don't recognize that, okay, mom or dad exist outside of myself, when they're, you know, in a different room. And so when they do realize that, it just means they're gonna miss you more, and they're going to, you know, have a harder time separating from you. So yeah, lots of fun there. Usually, you know, it can peak it, it's different for every child, but we see a lot of it kind of peeking around that eight month range. And then around 18 months, those I would say, are the peak times when, at least on my end, I hear of it disrupting sleep a lot, doesn't mean that you can't have a 10 month old or a 13 month old who also struggles with it. But those are just some typical times where it really rears its ugly head. Okay, so you kind of talked about why separation anxiety happens, and when we can usually see it, but how does it present? What does it look like so that our audience knows what they can be looking out for? Yeah, what to look for. So typically, it's going to be any time that you know, your child is maybe suddenly freaking out or upset when you leave the room. Maybe you're not even leaving the room, but you're leaving their field of vision. You know, they can't see you because you are, you know, on the other side of a wall or something, anytime that you're kind of leaving their field of vision. How to handle separation anxiety like a boss That's when it can happen. And you know, it's just going to be protesting and sometimes it's going to present more with that primary caregiver and it may not present with anyone else. So if you're a stay at home mom, you may only experience it when you're leaving their field division, it may not be when their other caregivers leave. Or it could be when any caregiver you know is leaving their field division. It just depends on the child. A lot of times we will see it in tears at daycare drop off or at nap and bedtime, which is why we're talking about this because those are times when you will be setting them down. Leaving. So that's usually what it's going to present at the end. Kayla, I know that you, you know, like you said, you guys have dealt with this on and off, you've dealt with it. Maybe a little to the extreme side, I'm sure you would say because of COVID. And absolutely, just share some of your experience about what you guys have gone through. Sure. Okay, so our our smallest child irey, he is on his way to being two years old. So most of his life has been COVID. He has been to one restaurant, he has been to a grocery store one time. So his experiences have been us and at home. And I am immunocompromised. So I was really big on not letting anybody in that includes when we moved all the way back to my hometown, that includes, you know, my best friend, that includes my mom not coming in. And so we rely heavily my husband and I on each other. I am a stay at home parent. And so that first kind of eight month one, I remember not being as big, but it was way bigger with me. I'm sorry, I kind of always say I don't know if any of you guys watched the show dinosaurs. How to handle separation anxiety like a boss But the baby on there slaps the dad with a pan and says that the mama at our house, it is very much mama and not the mama. And everybody that is not me is not the mama. So we had a little bit of that happened. But like most recently, I'd say starting around 18 months, and it has not been the linear for us. It hasn't been like he had this bout of separation anxiety for two weeks. And then it was done. It's been like here and there. And it's lasted a couple days or only one night. It kind of started when my husband and my oldest went on vacation. And he was cutting his teeth. So it was always like really hard to like, okay, is he cutting his teeth? Is it separation anxiety? Is it both? But I very much erred on the to he get his Tylenol? Did he get his sippy? So does he have a clean diaper is he fed, if he's hurting that I take care of that. And if I've done everything that I can to deal with that, then it's up to him to deal with the rest. And he needs to learn how to handle not being with us and what that looks like for him. And so I may be on an extreme side of taking care of it. But once all of his needs that I could I could handle myself were taken care of then I left the rest up to him. Yeah, no. And I love how you say that because you made sure that his needs were addressed. And what I think I think we get into Oh, I don't know, we get into the wrong headspace sometimes about separation anxiety, and we like feel like we need to protect them from having these feelings. And we don't write like we don't have to protect them from ever feeling uncomfortable from being frustrated. We want them to experience that. And my perspective is an especially in your case, you know, where I'm Murray has, for a very long time, fallen asleep on his own. He knows his crib, like that is his safe place. It's not a new foreign place for him. And so there's nothing wrong with us using and I would actually say that's a great everyday practice for him to learn. How to handle separation anxiety like a boss Like when you go into your crib, you're in a safe space that you know, and it's sleep time. And you always see that mom comes back Mom always comes back after a nap time Mom always comes back in the morning. I mean, what better way to deal with separation anxiety than that predictability and that constant like day in day out pattern that he's seen for months and months and months. Right. And I think that one of the important things to remember is is that this is like the first bout of separation anxiety that your kid's gonna gonna feel but then you know, our goal right as parents is to get our kids to a place of independence and whatever that means And so getting your kid to independently sleep and then to get your your kid to go to school, you know, they're gonna feel separation anxiety again there and then when you take them to college, like all of those things are different bouts of separation anxiety that you have as a kid and so these are skills that are going to continue to build. We just need that foundation. Yeah, I just think I don't know sometimes I just feel like he Know what nap time and sleep time is like this perfectly built in way for us to slowly work on that independence, right to just gradually get it there and there because they get that practice every day. And we also know from, you know, the mental health aspect, the stay at home parent aspect, even if you're not a stay at home parent, you need that time to yourself to you know, it's, it's I mean, I'm sure there are some families that do not mind being attached to their little ones 24 seven, if you've been listening to this podcast, you know, me and Kayla are not those families. That is not our experience or our personalities. How to handle separation anxiety like a boss And I don't think there's a right or wrong way. But for me, that is so important. And that nap and bedtime gives me what I need, gives them what they need. And I just think it's so usually important. Absolutely. Okay, so if you if we're talking about the separation anxiety, how can we get to a place where both we feel comfortable, and maybe we can kind of slowly get our kids to feel more comfortable with being separated from us. So I have a couple things that I recommend doing, you know, the first one, and this is something that we can be doing from the very beginning with our children is practicing leaving them, you know, so that that doesn't have to be like huge things where we're leaving them for days at a time or for hours at a time, it could literally be like mom, leaving the child with the other caregiver, so that she can go out and go for a 10 minute walk around the block, you know, practicing those bouts of being away, and you can work up to them being longer so that you can be gone for hours, you can be gone for days, you know if that's something that that you're wanting to do. But just having those blocks of practicing from the very beginning can really be helpful. How to handle separation anxiety like a boss And you know, with COVID, right now, if that's just leaving them with your significant other, or you know, with one trusted person that you're kind of having in your social circle, that's okay. If that's more people, if that's having a babysitter, you know, if that's having grandparents, watch them, whoever that may be, but get that practice so that they are familiar with being away from you and leaving your side. And I know, it may sound kind of silly. But we did do this last summer, I was able to let my mom come in a few times. And we actually, this is very type A of me that which is pretty on point. But I practiced with her and I did the Okay, I'm just gonna run, I would drop him off at my mom's house. But first, she would come over here because I know that this environment is somewhere that he knows. And so she would come over here would be like, Okay, I'm going to go get a sweet tea from McDonald's. And I believe and I'd be gone for literally four or five minutes, I'd come back in, maybe he screamed the whole time. Maybe he didn't. It really just depended and we got him. Honestly, guys, we like trained him so that he was comfortable so that my husband and I could leave for a half day for our anniversary. So it sounds silly, but you are essentially training your child to be ready for whatever it is. So and it hasn't worked. So we may be back to square one Now, again, but considering we haven't done it so long, but at that time it worked. Yeah, and it is it's just all about giving, you know, you are giving eimeria those experiences of being with someone else where you were away, so he could experience it, see that everything was fine. See that you come back. So next time, the idea is it's not going to seem as stressful because he will have that previous experience, you know, and, and yeah, that's huge. I cannot overstate how much that helps. The next thing I would recommend is not sneaking away. And I know this is a hard one. How to handle separation anxiety like a boss I think this is kind of the default sometimes. So you know, if we're experiencing separation anxiety at the daycare drop off maybe and so we stay with them, we get them distracted by something and then we sneak out. Or if we're dealing with it at sleep time. Maybe we stay in the room until they've settled until they're drowsy until they're asleep. And then we sneak out. Typically that's not what I recommend. Because that's not necessarily giving them that chance to process like Oh Yes, mom is leaving or dad is leaving. And then especially with sleep, what it can actually do is they start to learn Like, okay, when I fall asleep, that's when mom leaves. And so I'm gonna resist sleep more, because I really don't want mom to leave. And so it can kind of play into that just making it take longer and longer until they go to sleep, or you start experiencing the night wakings. And then you have to come back in, lay down on the floor with them until they fall asleep, sneak out again, and it just kind of starts to recap. So I don't recommend sneaking away instead, I would say, be calm, be confident. Leave like you normally would, you know, let them know, it's it's okay to narrate and say, I know you're upset. I know, you don't want me to leave. It's sleep time, I'm going to leave now be competent, leave. And and leave it at that, you know, yeah. And make it I mean, don't obviously don't make it rushed or anything but make it like she said very confident, very, you know, kind of quick, short term, so that it's not like, you know, if they start getting upset that you're like, comforting them. And like, I'm not saying don't comfort your kids, but you know, like so that you're not catering to them, you need like, you're the person that's in charge. So you, you know, this is how it's going to be and this is what we're doing. And I'll be back in a couple hours or whatever. So that they kind of know or if you don't know, our house, obviously our kids don't know time. So like I'll say, like, I'll be back before dinner, Mommy will be home for dinner. So that they can kind of understand that mommy is coming back and she'll be eating with us or whatever that looks like. Yeah, yeah. And that's a good point, Kayla, like when we linger, that shows them that we are after our Well, that's you. Yes, yes, it shows that. Okay, there's a cause and effect here. And that definitely happens as they get older. It's, it's not, I would not say it's manipulation. But they can understand cause and effect I do this mom responds this way. Yeah, so it's normal for them to use those patterns and to play off those patterns. But then also lingering is going to show that you're unsure that you yourself are feeling anxious, and that is not going to help the situation. How to handle separation anxiety like a boss So usually, if we're leaving, you know, either quickly, or just like we usually would, that is going to help convey that calm confidence to them. The third thing I would really recommend is just having your consistent routines. When you're dealing with separation anxiety, I know there's a strong urge to change up all your routines and to do things differently. But what you need to remember is that consistent routine to them, that is safety, that is predictability, that is comfort. And so when we change things that can actually add more anxiety into the mix, because they're like, okay, now what's happening this time and what's happening this time. Whereas if we just do the same thing every time and they know that routine to expect, they're not going to have that wondering what's coming next. Yeah, and guys, you don't have to be afraid to be, you know, to type a or whatever, I will go ahead and give you permission. Now I wrote, when I was pregnant with my second I wrote an entire binder that had different, like, different files in it of this is what we do in the morning. These are the breakfast that my son likes, like it was an entire binder guys, I'm not kidding. But the thing about that that was important to me is that I can't control when I'm going to be having the second child, right. I had no control on that. But what I did have control over was okay, he knows what bedtime looks like he knows that he will get to do A, B and C before bedtime, regardless of who is taking care of him. And so it was important for me that he felt safe, even if it wasn't me that was there. So I don't know, it's very, very important for me, for my kid to feel safe and wherever he's at. And so being able to give him at least that kind of made all the difference in me when I was gone, but also knowing that he was fine as well. Another vote for writing things down. I mean, when my first was born, I worked outside of the home and I worked weird hours. And my mom watched Ethan a lot when he was a baby. And I wrote everything down. And I mean, I think probably at first she was a little annoyed, but it really helped both of them to thrive. And it also helped me to know what happened, what she was doing. If it was a weird day for some reason know where it went wrong. Yeah, that's that's huge. I love writing things down and giving them to people and saying here, please follow this. Yeah, and I hope that one day We really can't get like our moms on to talk about what this experience was like for them when they watched our kids and like, what they would do differently, all of that kind of stuff, because I think it would be really interesting to get mother or mother in law's perspective of his parents. Ooh, yeah. And I know, we've talked about this, like, we know that they did things very differently from how we do things. So I like that I like that future episode idea. We're gonna have to work on that. Okay. So last thing I would say when we're dealing with separation, anxiety, and sleep, and I've kind of hinted at this the whole way. But I really just want us to be putting things in perspective. And just reminding ourselves that bedtime and naptime those are everyday, safe, predictable opportunities for your child to learn that you always come back, when you say you will, that you always come back, they know the routine, what better way for them to learn this and to work through the separation anxiety than in the safety of their home, you know, day in and day out with you. So I think that's huge. And I know sometimes, you know, we may think about separation anxiety in a daycare setting when you drop your child off with a different caregiver, and they may have separation anxiety. And yeah, that's frustrating. And that sucks. But usually, none of us are like quitting our jobs or calling off that day to stay with them during that separation anxiety, right? We're like, you know what, this is a part of life and we comfort them, we leave, we go about our day. But for some reason, when it comes to bedtime and naptime, it's a lot harder to kind of stick with our, you know, attitude, right? This is part of life, and we're still going to do business as usual. So I don't know where that disconnect happens. But I would just encourage you keep it in perspective. And just remember it is it's just a great built in way every day for them to figure this separation out and that you always come back. Alright guys, that's it for us today. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast about separation anxiety. And remember, if you can follow along on Instagram, follow all the sleeps. Carrie and I will be talking about separation anxiety throughout the week, so that you guys can get a little bit more help with that. And thank you so much for listening again, guys. We love you. Thank you so much for listening to the sleep talking moms podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a second to rate and review. Each review helps more tired and overwhelmed moms find simple and practical sleep advice. See you back here soon. How to handle separation anxiety like a boss

Ever felt like sleep was going great... and then your child learned a brand new motor skill? It can be so frustrating but it is a normal part of that baby life unfortunately.

Join us as we talk through troubleshooting for these common issues and how to handle them when they mess with sleep:

•Rolling

•Crawling

•Standing

•Walking

 

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Episode 7: Navigating new skills and sleep

Navigating new skills and sleep

Hey guys and welcome back to episode seven of the sleep talking moms podcast today Carianna and I are going to be talking about new skills, and how they can disrupt the sleep process. So, this can be throughout babyhood toddlerhood we're talking, rolling crawling, when they pull up to stand. When they start learning how to do gymnastics, and even things like learning how to talk, and how those impacts sleep cycles, probably both have stories for this but, yeah, absolutely.

I have my own stories for sure and this is something I hear so much from families like sleeps going well and then something changes, you know, and that kind of on one end. It really sucks, because things are constantly in flux with our little ones like there's just so much growing and developing we have to be ready to roll with the punches right and it is it's just like chess right when you get it down, and things are going smooth, and then all of a sudden,

they learn how to crawl.

And so, yes, I very vividly remember being like, Yes, I got it. This is good but then always having that like fear of like, Okay, wait. Things are good but that doesn't mean they're going to be good students are like always having that constant anxiety of like it's too good to be true, something's gonna happen.

Yes, yes I can relate to that too and it's you know it's hard not to live there, but, but I do want to make sure like that we aren't living there where we're, we're either anxious about sleeping bad, or it's good and we're still anxious about when it's gonna mess up again, you know that I find I find a lot of parents get stuck there. And that's not, you know, helpful to anyone. No, that's no way to live. Right, exactly. Be prepared. Be prepared, and then remind yourself of the positives right. It's good that y

our child is developing

and growing these are things you want them to do, you know as much as you don't want sleep to be disrupted. You don't want that at the expense of them learning new things growing, yeah. Well, and I was going to share, you know when my second son, who is now five years but when he was, I don't know, around six months he started rolling a lot in the crib, and he would get stuck.

And yes, this may sound weird to some of you listening because I feel like everybody in their mom has video monitors now, but at that time, we just had an audio monitor that was all we had. And we had never owned one with my first son, we just had an audio monitor, And when my son started rolling and

getting stuck. I was like, I convinced my husband,

we needed a video monitor because I'm like, I want to be able to see if he's stuck and that's why he's in there making noise or if he's just in there making noise, you know, yeah. So that was when we first bought our video monitor so we can see like, oh yep he rolled over in the corner and he is like, stuck at a weird angle he needs help, or oh nope, he's just up there and awaken, we're gonna give him space, you know, thank you video monitors they are, they do come in handy and it's always like,

Okay, you watch it and you're like Okay wait. Okay. Navigating new skills and sleep Is he gonna, can you get out can you get out, do I have to come in. No, you do that, wait period. I don't know, it's also really great to watch them be able to pull up and crawl and roll and all of those things but we all wanted so desperately for them to do. Yes, but also it make us very tired, which is fine too. Yeah and I mean,

Kayla, let me ask you from a mom perspective,

I mean, when, when you have a child going through one of these new skills learning one of these things. What, what is your typical response or approach when sleep is disrupted like what do you try to do so. Thanks to you, and everything that I have learned being your best friend and supporting you and all of that.

My biggest thing has just been to give space, and to allow them to kind of figure it out, because just with any other thing that has to do with independence sleeping, there's a learning curve, and there's an independence. And so, letting them kind of figure it out,

guide and not always be the person that's

coming in constantly trying to fix everything, than the biggest key honestly for all of sleeping but especially as they learn new skills.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of giving space to I mean, as much as you can and, and not to say that you can't go in and comfort if they're having a hard time, but when they're learning something new.

It can be easy to fall into those habits of like, all of a sudden, helping them to sleep where you didn't before or doing extra things to get them to sleep that you didn't need to do before. You know, I would say, a lot of times I hear from moms like, you know,

they were in there they were crawling around they were happy, but it was nap time and I didn't want them to get overtired,

so I just went in and rock them to sleep. And I think my approach to that is like, Oh no, don't, don't do that especially if they're happy like don't disrupt that let them get that practice out, they will sleep when they're ready because you've given them the tools to do so but don't feel like you have to, okay it's nap time and if they're not asleep in 10 minutes, I have to go in and make them sleep. I think that's kind of a common pitfall. Around this time, yes.

Okay, so just to like kind of recap, we kind of are saying, if they're not upset, give them the space. And then also, you kind of started to hit on giving them an opportunity to practice these skills before, get these little kiddos tired.

Yes, to give them plenty of time and space to work on it during awake time so that it doesn't feel so novel, when they're in their crib, you know, if they are, for some reason being held constantly all awake time or they just don't have much time down on the floor playing, then when you put them in their crib and they're free, it's like, Oh, it's this novel thing I haven't been free all day.

Now I'm going to practice this skill

so I mean, and that that really applies for whether you're going through a disruption or not you want to be giving them space on the floor to play, to work on those skills as they're ready to, yeah, and then to kind of, since you were kind of recapping kale, I think, you know, the next step is. Okay, so what if my child's in there, and they're unhappy.

So like for example the rolling one is huge, where a baby can now roll, so they roll from back to belly, they get on their belly, and they're mad about it or they kind of get a little stuck there, you know, or it can happen with pulling up to stand if they're newly doing that, they'll pull up to stand and just wail and maybe they're stuck there maybe they're not but they're just like standing up, you know, kind of calling for you. Yeah. Which is, nobody likes that that's not fun.

I feel like the pulling up to stay and milestone also tends to correspond a lot with separation anxiety

with that like first bout around eight, nine months. And so the combination of them pulling up to stand and calling for you because they don't want you to leave like it just hurts your heart. It does and we are we have on our list to talk about separation anxiety at a later time but you know with those skills where they're working on them, and they're upset. Navigating new skills and sleep I think it's always okay to go in and comfort. We just want to try to not Russian right we don't want our instinct to ever be that we have to Russian.

And then we want to just be curious about how little can I help them, and then be okay and then be able to fall asleep, instead of rushing you know straight towards that, you know, number one thing that you know oh if I do that they'll be asleep within a minute, right, right, so don't start any new habits that you're not willing to continue, basically, which is like a huge part of sleep training just in general, but, like, a good reminder especially when these new skills come in.

Hey, did you know that I have a freebie for tackling short naps. Not only do you get a free download, but you also receive four days of audio messages from yours truly, to dig in deeper. If you are struggling with short naps, click the link down below to download the free guide. Okay, back to the episode.

I think this is an important time to just remind parents especially first time parents back to bed, but if they can roll it is okay that they're on their belly. I know that it is very, very anxiety inducing when you see your kid roll on your belly and you're like no no no you're not, you're not. Yes, they can roll, they are okay.

Yes, I'm so glad you said that because it is just drilled into our brains back for sleeping and that is very important in those early months before they can roll like we know that back sleeping greatly reduces the risk of SIDS, but once they can roll, even if they can roll back to belly, but they can't get from belly to back, they have still shown that they have the strength to be there on their tummy, and as long as they're getting there.

It's okay and and another thing Navigating new skills and sleep I hear a lot of parents when, when a baby will start rolling, they'll be like, well they're laying like facedown on the mattress like I have to go move them. And as long as your sleep space is clear and free like there's nothing in their crib with them, there's nothing they can get tangled on, they are okay, yes, even if they are laying face down on the mattress because the baby mattresses are created to not conform to their face that's why a firm mattress is important.

That's why, you know, we typically don't recommend adult beds because they are not firm, they are squishy and have give, but that crib will not conform to their mouth and so even as painful as it is to see them lay like that.

They're okay if they got there themselves, and then while we're on the topic of safe sleep and new skills. Let's talk a minute about mesh bumpers, when new skills are happening. Honestly a lot of them rolling crawling, pulling up to sand, I mean any kind of gymnastics. So along with that can come, bumping their head into the crib. And, you know, them getting a limb kind of stuck out between the slats like those things just naturally happen as they become more mobile.

And so a lot of times, the question comes, how do I keep that from happening, you know, and that's where things like bumpers come in, and I guess my biggest advice would be don't add bumpers, they're not considered safe, even the mesh ones are not considered safe, because they have not been tested vigorously with your crib, like the crib itself and the mattress has been so I don't recommend those.

Navigating new skills and sleep

I'm sad I just say, let's be patient. Let's give them time to figure out, you know, the limits of their crib and if they bump their head or if they get a leg stuck out, we can always go in and help them. Another good thing for this if it's happening, try a sleep sack, it's not like a completely, you know it's not going to solve the problem 100% But it can help. If you notice they're getting a leg stuck in a crib slat.

Navigating new skills and sleep

The other thing I would say too and this one may be harder to do but if you are feeling like sleep is just really disrupted or if you have a little one who's constantly getting stuck, even though you've given them time, they you know maybe it's been weeks that it's been going on, you can always opt to use a pack and play for a temporary amount of time or permanently honest idea.

Yeah, because the sides are mash and so they can't get a limb stuck, and if they bump their head against the side it's not quite like bumping their head against the side of the crib bars so that's always an option, a pack and play is the safe, you know, sleep approved space, and while some families wouldn't use them or wouldn't consider using them long term other families use them almost exclusively for sleep and it's, there's no problem there.

So at this point I want to point you guys to my Instagram profile where I have several highlights about various topics but one specifically is called new skills and I go much more in depth about the rolling the crawling the standing, so if you are in one of those spaces right now where you're dealing with a new skill you're not really sure how to handle it what to do, head to that highlight called new skills that will be really helpful for you. and then I know we also talked a little about safe sleep and if you have any questions or concerns about safe sleep.

I have a blog that I will link in the show notes as well and you guys always know you can send me a DM send me an email let me know if you have questions or concerns about that because we do, we do believe that safe sleep is important and so I just want to make sure everyone has the resources they need for that.

Navigating new skills and sleep
Alright guys, that ends today's episode. Thank you so much for listening. We appreciate you all.
Thank you so much for listening to the sleep talking moms podcast. If you enjoyed this episode please take a second to rate and review each review helps more tired and overwhelmed moms find simple and practical sleep advice. See you back here soon.

Bedtime routines are KEY to healthy sleep habits. But when we start talking about establishing routines around sleep, there are several issues that pop up. Join us as we talk through troubleshooting for these common issues:

Parental preference at bedtime

Feeding to sleep association

Screen usage before bedtime

 

Sleep Coaching Crash Course (4-24 months)

How to Craft the Perfect Bedtime Routine

 

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, etc.

Episode 5: Troubleshooting Bedtime Routine Issues

Troubleshooting bedtime routine issues Hey guys, welcome back to the sleep talking moms podcast, we are here today, and we are going to be talking about common bedtime routine issues. But first, Kayla's here with me, and I think we need to share another Kayla- Carianna story, what do you think Kayla. I think that that would be great. Okay, so I'm going to share that I feel like this story might make us sound a little crazy, but we're just gonna go with it. Yeah, and we might be, we might be. So, Kayla was going on a first date and I believe, was this a blind date that your mom set up.
Yes, so this was a blind date that my mom set up by meeting. She was at a restaurant and saw this kid, and thought that he was really cute. And so she proceeded to go up to his table, tell him about me and get his number. and they like, set up a blind date without me there. Oh my. So it starts off really good. I was like holding back my laughter because I knew if I let myself laugh it would be way too loud. This is totally like your mom, this is just kind of what your mom's like right she's classic. As always looking out for her daughters, above all else. So, this was like we were college age and I was actually dating my husband at the time, and he never you engage. Oh, well I don't know it. I don't know, could be either. I'm not sure we were together, and I don't know if it was your idea, or my it was your idea it was not. Definitely my idea. Yeah, I don't think he would just do that. I don't think that you would come up with that I think that obviously you would go along with it. But yeah, it was definitely my idea. Okay, so it was Caitlin's idea, and my mom had always had this like really gross, black wig, like a, like, black long hair and it was like all layered like lots of long layers, it was like framing face framing, if I remember correctly, yeah like maybe 60/70s type hairstyle that's probably when she got it. And I had always like, played with it for dress up or things. Well, we decided that I would wear that hat because this guy that she was going on a date with I had gone to high school, like we had all gone to high school together. We weren't the same age. No, he was a year younger I had no idea that I actually like knew who he was until I until I said his name and you were like oh my gosh Kayla he went to high school with us and she like showed me in the yearbook before I even got to the place where we were eating, so I wore the wig so that he wouldn't recognize me because I knew that he would have known that, you know, we were joined at the hip, that we were best friends so I wear the wig, he wouldn't have known Derek because Derek didn't go to our high school, and we went on the date with them and sat at a table, you know, across, across yeah across the room and just kind of stopped them and watch them until my day, found out that it was you guys he asked, Hey, is that Karianna like oh my gosh yeah that looks like her. Pretending like I had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you were there in a wig, like you didn't even have to be there no way you could have just naturally been at this restaurant. We did not think this through. Troubleshooting bedtime routine issues We didn't think it through, but it was really fun, and I guess makes a really good story, it does. And, you know, in case you're wondering, she never went on any more dates with him, so no no it's not a love connection. So there's your, there's your Kayla Carianna story. I hope you don't think less of us. Now that you've heard that. But moving on to talk about some common bedtime routine issues so lots of things with bedtime routines, and also at the time that you're, if you're listening to this as it's coming out, gonna be talking about bedtime routines, this week as well so stay tuned on Instagram for more info. But one of the main issues I see is parental preference at bedtime, so maybe only one parent can put the child down, and if the other parent tries the child either can't fall asleep has a meltdown etc. Kayla, have you guys experienced any parental preference, with bedtime.
This is one of those where we have been lucky to not deal with that. Sorry for any of you that are and are like, oh cool, good for you. Um, this is one of the things that we were lucky enough to not deal with. However, for us and the way that we do things like it's always been both of us doing the bedtime routine with both of the children, and then I'm always doing the NAPS because I'm a stay at home mom, So there wasn't really any room for negotiation there. Yeah, we were very much the same way I mean when I had my first son, I was working split shifts so I was gone, probably half the bedtimes anyway so you know Ethan, my oldest just kind of had to learn to go with the flow and get used to both or either of us putting him down and, and I do think, you know, if you're listening to this with a really really young one, start that as early as you can, where you have both parents involved in the process where you even trade off nights, so that you do you have that freedom and your child is to use to one parent or the other, putting them down. I think that that sets the stage from the beginning for that. Yes, but if you were not able to start that at an early age for whatever reason. What can you do. Yes, so this one is a lot is going to depend on your child's age, you know, the older they are, it's often the older they are the more that they have really big feelings and emotions, and they're able to say like no I want, I want this parent to do it or no I want this parent to do it. And so a lot of times with that toddler preschooler age, it kind of becomes, you know, a power struggle and then parents kind of give in a little on that boundary, and then before you know it, the child is demanding one parent every night and it just kind of snowballs so with an older child, it's always good to just validate their feelings, I know you like it when Mom puts you down for bed, I know you're sad, she can't do it. Troubleshooting bedtime routine issues But then, hold that boundary you can hold it and be loving. But tonight, it's my night to put you down, so we're gonna go do your routine can you show me what the first thing is that we do. So, valid, eight, how they're feeling. Hold the boundary, and then try to kind of redirect them toward the routine. Yeah and then give them the power and the independence in the areas that you can what book. What book do you want to read, so that they still feel like they are somewhat in control. Yes, absolutely offering those like two choices, you know, and make sure that the choices you're offering are choices that you're comfortable with. So, these pajamas or these pajamas, not. Do you want to put your diaper on as like an open ended question right do we want to step into your pull up or do you want me to help you. Those things can really help them feel in control, about a different piece, that's a great point Kayla, and you know, with the younger ones. A lot of times when I see parental preference, with, you may be bait the baby stage, it's more centered around one particular parent, helps them to sleep in a very specific way. As an example, you know, this is what I see a lot, not the only example but if a child, nurses to fall asleep, then they're one mom that nurses, then, is the only one that can do that right so that's where that preference can really come in, and that's okay. If you're comfortable with that, but if you're feeling like you don't want to be the only person that can get them down, that's when it's a good time to either introduce other ways to put them to sleep or work on that independent sleep piece where they can put themselves to sleep. another common bedtime routine issue that I see. And I will have a disclaimer here, this is not an issue for everyone kind of like we just talked about with the nursing to sleep. But if you are struggling with bedtime and feeding sleep, that can be kind of a big, big red flag for me. Because if your child is only used to falling asleep with a feed, that means any time they have one of their normal night wakings, they're probably also going to feel like they need a feed to fall asleep, even if that hunger isn't there. So typically with the are really little ones, it can be helpful from day one, almost to establish an eat, play sleep routine. So basically, we try to feed them when they wake up in the morning when they wake up from a nap. So that that feeding is not drifting closer to when they fall asleep. So that the two aren't intermingling there. And that can also be really helpful to make sure that they are getting a full feeding as well. So they're not drifting off partway during their feed. If you have an older child, and you're kind of already doing the feeding to sleep, you're kind of out of those newborn days, what can be helpful is either to slowly shift that feeding earlier in your routine until it's kind of the first thing or a lot of times, what I will do with my clients is, when we start on night one, we just start with a brand new routine, instead of gradually changing it over a series of days. And we just do feeding first and then the rest of the routine, so that there's a very clear separation there. And you know, apart from the sleep association that we've been talking about, where if a child feels like they need to fall they need to eat in order to fall asleep. As they get older. If this is a pattern that stays in place, it also can become an issue with teeth, right. Troubleshooting bedtime routine issues So if eating is the last thing that your child does, if that's how they fall asleep, then we're not having the chance to get in there and brush their teeth before they're sleeping for their, you know, eight 910 1112 hours. And that means that that is just sitting there on their teeth, which which can be a really big long term problem. Another common bedtime issue I see. And this one may be a little controversial. And I know, myself and Kayla have not always followed this one either. So I think it is very family and child dependent. But if you are struggling with sleep, having screens right before bed can be really disruptive. And the kind of best practice is having one to two hours of screen free time before bed. Basically, you know, screens are going to emit that blue light which signals directly to your child's brain that it's daytime. This is part of the reason why us as adults, we all struggle with sleep more than we did before you know cell phones were invented. And before we were on screens every night before bed, it just puts off that melatonin production makes it harder for us to fall asleep and that same thing can happen with your child as well. Kayla, what is your family's kind of philosophy with screens before bed? What do you guys do what works for you? We actually do screens before bed it has not that is one of the things once again I sound like I'm just like my kids have no issues. But trust me, trust me my kids have issues but we we do screens before bed we actually like into the night as I don't know how to explain it but like in the living room. I say Okay, one more song. We're still like, because I'm so little we're still doing like Nursery Rhymes Coco melon. Everybody knows actually. Oh, no Cocomelon. I mean, I've heard of Coco melon. never watched it. Well, you're very lucky. They get stuck in your head. But we always do like one last song. And then we make our way upstairs and do our typical routine which is a book for each boy. ls comes with us to take it down for sleep. I goes to bed we put them in his crib. We say night and then Ellis Is his night routine So we do screens before bed and it just hasn't been. Yes. And I agree wholeheartedly if it's not an issue, it's not an issue, right? We had a period of time where we would do screens before we went up to do our routine. So you know, about 2030 minutes before bed, which is obviously not what I recommend. Troubleshooting bedtime routine issues But we weren't struggling either. And then we did. When did you start? When did you start struggling? Oh, I don't remember honestly, probably sometime around when COVID hit last year, it started being a struggle. And it wasn't, it wasn't that they were struggling to fall asleep at night. That's not where I noticed it, although I was really keeping my eye on that, to make sure the time it took them to fall asleep wasn't getting longer and longer because of the screen use. But it was causing a lot of meltdowns, when we would have to turn the screen off and go to our routine. And it was just putting a bad vibe over the whole routine. Yeah, so we just said, if you're someone who's currently using screens before bed, and you're like, Oh, yeah, maybe this is part of the problem. I would recommend offering that same chunk of time earlier in the day, whether it's earlier in the evening, earlier in the afternoon, morning. And just be really clear with your child that we are going to do this now instead of at bedtime. So give them plenty of warning about the change. Know that when bedtime does roll around, they're still probably going to be like wait, but I always do this. And you can remind them we did it earlier. Troubleshooting bedtime routine issues There may be tears and meltdowns. Right. But as parents, we're not walking on eggshells our whole life to avoid meltdowns were supporting through them holding those boundaries. But it is possible if you have screens before bedtime to move them earlier if it's an issue. So I just want to give you some hope in that as well if you feel like you need to make that change. So thank you guys for joining us while we talked through some common bedtime routine issues and I just want to remind you be following along on Instagram or Facebook wherever you follow along because this week we will be talking all about bedtime routine stuff. So there will be lots more info there and I hope to see you thank you guys have a great week. Thank you so much for listening to the sleep talking moms podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a second to rate and review. Each review helps more tired and overwhelmed moms find simple and practical advice. See you back here soon. Yeah I will see you next week. Troubleshooting bedtime routine issues 

We all know that feeling when sleep is going well and the BAM! You have to a drop a nap. How do you know it's time? How do you do it? How do you avoid the anxiety that comes with nap transitions?

During this episode we will commiserate and share some nap transition tips so that you feel a little more prepared and a little less alone next time you hit a nap transition.

 

Comprehensive Nap Transition Guide

How to Drop a Nap brief overview

30 minute coaching call to talk through a nap transition

 

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, etc.

Episode 4: Nap Transition Tips

Nap Transition Tips
We all know that feeling when sleep is going well and the BAM! You have to a drop a nap. How do you know it's time? How do you do it? How do you avoid the anxiety that comes with nap transitions? Welcome to episode four of the sleep talking moms podcast and today we are going to talk through map transitions, we're going to talk through some general points, general things to know about it, because, I mean, nap transitions suck, let's just be really hard. They're not fun. Yeah, if we could just keep our babies frozen in the same net schedule for years, I think we would all choose to do that. Am I right, yeah. Yes, 1,000%, and the anxiety that comes from getting ready for those nap transitions, who yes and Kayla you recently just went through a transition that with your youngest, we want to share just a little bit about that. Yes, okay so little Imani bless his little heart. He just transitioned he is 20 Almost 20 months, he just transition from two naps to one nap, and carry on or you will remember that his four to three nap transition was rough. Yeah, and his three to two transition was rough, and I had many many questions. Luckily, the two to one, for Irie was great, but disclaimer for my first child, Ellis, his two to one nap transition was awful. Nap Transition Tips
We all know that feeling when sleep is going well and the BAM! You have to a drop a nap. How do you know it's time? How do you do it? How do you avoid the anxiety that comes with nap transitions? So that's either going to be extremely uplifting for you if you're listening to this, or it's gonna be like, Oh no, but I will say that the hardest part of nap transitions for me, there's two things. One is the anxiety that I put on myself, of like kind of like bracing myself and getting myself pepped up enough to be like, okay, yes we're doing this, we're doing this we're going to be consistent with it. That's probably the hardest thing. The second hardest thing for me is being afraid of that early bedtime. If the last nap or the naps, get kind of wonky. Huh, I remember that being kind of a sticking point for you when we talk and I'd be like, Okay, I think you need to do a six or a 630 bedtime and you'd be like, like was kid's gonna wake up in an hour. Yes but, but he either did, and we had our sleep training plan in place, or he slept. And it was great. We got that extra hour or so of sleep, right, that he had missed throughout the day, for having those short little naps. So, yes, and we're going to talk about early bedtimes. In a little bit because that is a big piece of nap, transitions, Kayla I was gonna ask you because I often tell parents, especially with that two to one transition that it's probably going to be two to four weeks before things kind of settle in, what, what did you feel like your timeframe was with eimeria I don't know if you remember with Alice I know that was a while back. Yeah, I actually remember with ls because LS took quite a while to get used to it. And I think that in hindsight, that with my first kid I was so caught up with like timeframes and shoulds, that I may have moved him a little bit more quickly than I should have. And so his two to one that transition, took a good three ish, I would say, weeks, I'm right on the other hand he has, he is my sleeper. He has always been a great sleeper. He is my child. It went so smoothly but guys I waited, I was at, you know, Karianna gives kind of like a good general age range for when these nap transitions happen normally, and he was at either the very tail end, he was about 18 months, I think close to 19 months before I moved him to transition him, and that transition. I think I may have just lucked out too, but it was flawless. It happened within. I'd say a week or less. That's awesome. Nap Transition Tips
We all know that feeling when sleep is going well and the BAM! You have to a drop a nap. How do you know it's time? How do you do it? How do you avoid the anxiety that comes with nap transitions? Yeah. And just to give you some general guidelines. These are always general but, you know, with the two to one transition, usually we're looking at 15 to 18 months is that range when they're going to do it and I will tell you from experience that if a child is able to wait until they're older, you know, some cases that's just not going to happen because they kind of decide for you that they're done with the second half. But if your child's able to wait longer it goes a lot smoother if you kind of let them wait longer with the three to two nap transition, we're looking at seven to nine months when they're usually ready to do it. And with the four to three transition really anytime between, I would say three and a half to five months. Usually I don't like to get too much into five months before we are definitely making that transition. So those are some general guidelines, I will tell you guys before I jump into any more. I don't remember anything about my kids and nap transitions my boys are five years and seven years and I just, my brain does not have that information in it anymore. Yes, your brain is protecting you from, I don't know what but it is protecting you from remembering hard times. No, you know what though, Kayla, I think that they, they had relatively easy transitions, I think, of course, I don't remember, but I don't know. So yeah, but I mean I guess this is also to say, if you're struggling with nap transitions. You wait until they're five or seven or however, and you, you don't even remember anymore, you forget all of that anxiety. Okay so let's kind of jump into some quick tips for any nap transition, you know, the first thing I want to say it's okay to flip flop. So say we're transitioning from three naps to two naps. It's okay to flip flop between three nap days and two nap days for a while, that's actually kind of a normal part of the transition. But if you find yourself kind of stuck in between for, you know, I would say a week plus that you're like, go for it. Yes, you go for it, you got to bite the bullet and just do it right so flip flopping is okay, we don't want to be flip flopping forever, you may just need to take a little bit of a heavier hand, push them to fewer naps. The other thing that I would say is, it's totally okay to micromanage their naps, if you know they're not ready for the transition. So if I'm using that three to two nap transition as an example, they may be six six and a half months, they may be trying to drop the third nap or you may be having trouble fitting the third nap in, but you know, okay, if they're going to be on two naps, they need to be awake for around three hours, and my baby cannot hang for three hours. It's okay to wake them from some naps and kale, I know this was like a hard part for you. Yeah I would say it's a hard part for every single nap transition that I'm read went through, but obviously I remember them. The most recent transition the best. And I had gotten to the point where his second nap out of two, was 30 minutes long, and I stayed there for a very long time and it was very, it brought about a lot of anxiety in me because it was like okay well what if he doesn't go to sleep right away and what if, what if what if, what if, but I also knew that he would not be able to hang, especially that two to one nap transition like that's a huge amount of time difference that they have to be awake and so I just kind of trusted my gut, I knew my kid. And so, like I said we waited until, you know, 1819 months before we switched him, and you know your kid. So, trust your mom got on that for sure. And a question I get a lot with having to micromanage the schedule and maybe just to clear up what I mean by that I mean that you may have to start their day for them you may have to start their day at, you know, 7am or 6:30am or, you know, wherever that falls, you may not be able to let them have a random sleeping Jay, when you're micromanaging, and then you may have to wake them from each of their naps so that you can fit everything in with a bedtime still around eight and not not tipping later than that if we can avoid it. So a lot of times parents will ask me, Well if I am constantly waking them from these naps during this period, am I going to inhibit their ability to connect nap cycles later on. My answer to that is no, and that the benefits of waking them and micromanaging that schedule, definitely outweigh transitioning them to a few one fewer nap sooner than they're ready so micromanaging is huge, frustrating in the moment but it's temporary. And then the other thing is that early bedtime that we talked about a little bit so when you do transition to fewer naps, you're going to see that bedtime, shoot up earlier right so again I'm liking to use that transition of three to two just for continuity sake but if we're on three naps, that time is probably going to have crept later and later it might be close to eight, which is okay, but once we transition to two, we've got to expect that bedtime, to move earlier and it can be as early as 6pm, which I know is hard for some families, and it's scary. Right, absolutely. Yeah, I just remember, you know, being like, Okay, well, Wait, okay so I guess we're eating dinner for. But I don't know, I know people say this all the time, but it, I don't know I just feel like it, it all comes out in the wash it all turns out fine. So, If you have to completely, kind of, if you are able to kind of like reroute your day. In order to make these happen. It's 1,000% worth it. Yeah, and I think probably the common. The most common worry that parents have with the early bedtime is how early are they going to wake up the next morning then, and, you know, while that may happen here and there, what we know, overall with the overall picture is keeping them awake too long before bed, repeatedly, kind of guarantees that you're going to have early waking so we want to minimize stretching that last window too long, or we're going to have early wakings anyway. And it's not going to be early wakings because they got enough night sleep, it's going to be early wakings because they're overtired and there's absolutely a difference. Right. And remember guys like if you, you have them go to bed at six, and like me I was afraid of like, okay, in an hour and a half, this kid's gonna be up, and sometimes that kid was up, but that is what the sleep training plan is there for so you know whatever you have decided or you know you and Karianna if you use her, whatever you've decided is okay this is our plan of action, if my kid does wake up in the night, you know like whatever that is going on check on them, make sure they're fine and then go in every five minutes or 10 minutes or whatever it is that you have decided is good for your family. That's where this comes into play. Yes and that you bring up another good point Kayla that night wakings probably are going to creep up here and there. During this transition that's really really normal it's part of the process of them, adjusting, because if we're being honest, we can't avoid over tiredness, all together, when we're doing an app transition over tiredness is just going to happen and with that comes some disrupted sleep, but like Kayla mentioned having, you know, whatever your method is that you feel comfortable with and maybe you used it before, maybe you've never had to use one before but having a way that you're going to consistently respond to that disrupted sleep is really important, through the transition. And I think the last thing I would say is just to be patient, you know, just as much as you are struggling with adjusting and with the transition, your child is too. And so we just need to be patient and give them the time that their body needs to adjust to the new schedule. Yes, hugs and love to you guys, anyone who's in the middle of this nap transition are getting ready for one hugs and love to you 1,000% So and I'm also going to link in the show notes, I have a blog about each individual transition with some tips that can be helpful so if you are heading to one and you want to be prepared. That will give you kind of some step by step guidelines. And I also want you guys to know, I offer 30 Minute Calls, if you have an independent sleeper already, who can fall asleep on their own. I offer 30 Minute Calls just so we can talk through a plan of action for the nap transition phase, or maybe you're in the midst of it and you're like, Oh no, I've been doing this all wrong. Now what do I do, we can talk through and get you back on track so I will also link that in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for listening to sleep talking moms, we hope you are walking away from this episode with practical sleep advice to get the whole family sleeping better. If you enjoyed the episode, please take a second to rate and review each review helps more tired and overwhelmed moms by simple and practical sleep advice. See you back here soon. Nap Transition Tips
We all know that feeling when sleep is going well and the BAM! You have to a drop a nap. How do you know it's time? How do you do it? How do you avoid the anxiety that comes with nap transitions?